China needs to chill out. Big time.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Well they want the world to help them so they can get their country back. But I don't want to help them unless they want Democracy. I'm not really interested in putting a Oligarchy (monk class) into power, religious or otherwise. And obviously they need someones help because they can't take on the super giant that is China by themselves.

Yeah, I'm gonna guess that you've never been to a country that is primarily Buddhist, because if you had, you'd probably realize how rediculous it is to think that the monks will rise to power and rule the country in their own interests.

[Ford Prefect]

Given China's human rights record, particularly with regards to Tibet and the Falun Gong, I plan to boycott as much as is possible any companies that become official sponsors of the Beijing Olympics. Obviously that won't be possible in all cases (Visa), but I will try to find e-mail links at least to voice my disapproval and tell these companies that I hold them jointly responsible for China's human rights atrocities. You'd think at my age I would have learned the lesson about whizzing into the wind, but I can't in good conscience pass up this opportunity to make some kind of personal statement about China's conduct.

I'm already engaged in a "soft" made in China consumer boycott. By soft, I mean that I read labels and whenever there's an option to buy a product that's not made in China, I will. Certainly that's not always possible, but it's surprising how often you can chose to buy a product that wasn't made in China rather than one that was.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Yeah, I'm gonna guess that you've never been to a country that is primarily Buddhist, because if you had, you'd probably realize how rediculous it is to think that the monks will rise to power and rule the country in their own interests.

I don't know...just b/c you're a Buddhist culture doesn't mean you aren't capable of acting inappropriately.

I don't think that Tibet in the early part of the 20th Century was a model of social equality...

I'm not condoning anything that China is doing...just saying that it wasn't sunshine and lollipops for your average Tibetan even before the latest Chinese occupation

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

I understand that, I know where you're coming from and I agree with you completely.

My argument was; that in the context of the Olympics, its an opportunity being presented to China to improve their image.

And for the most part, the Olympics are a marketing slam-dunk, and China is screwing it up.

In the context of the Olympics, I think China cares very little about improving their image.

They probably feel that they're going to show the world how the Olympics should be done, and they're going to bring in billions in hard currency based around that.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Ultimately, this little uprising won't change a thing. A few thousand people will die (China will say it was 30 or 40), people will fear for their lives, and conform to the wishes of the CCP. Human rights for all!

China is already saying just 100s as if its not a big deal.

[Azure]

Hundreds of Tibetans have died in unrest in Lhasa and elsewhere in the Chinese-ruled Himalayan region, the India-based Tibetan parliament-in-exile said in a statement Monday.

"The massive demonstrations that started from March 10 in the capital city of Lhasa and other regions of Tibet, resulting (in the) death of hundreds of Tibetans, and subsequent use of force... needs to be brought to the attention of the United Nations and the international community," the statement said.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

[Domer]

I am a Tibetan living in Calgary. It has been a very emotional period for the last few days for all the Tibetans in Calgary.

China occupied Tibet in 1959 under the pretext of "Liberation" (from whom???) and has controlled the land since then. Dalai Lama was forced to flee to exile and there was an exodus of Tibetans who have now settled in India in Dharamsala. Dalai Lama has worked tirelessly for peace and non-violence and pretty much forced Democracy onto Tibetan People and has a functioning elected Government in exile in India with a Prime Minister. Dalai Lama has tried to negotiate with China for a peaceful solution and has even settled for an Autonomous Region. But China has made preconditions saying that Dalai Lama needs to say that 1. Tibet has always been a part of China and 2. Taiwan is also a part of China. But how can Dalai Lama go back into history and change facts or with all his sincerity say something that he doesn’t believe in. And #2, who are we to comment to the political status of Taiwan. So that negotiations have not borne any results.

It is the Tibetans left behind in Tibet that is facing the brunt of the situation. China has given incentives to Han Chinese to move to Tibet so that Tibetans are now outnumbered in their own land. It is an offence to practice your religious faith and even 13 year olds, peacefully demonstrating for religious freedoms, are jailed for over 10 years. Tibetan graduates can’t find employment as they don’t know Chinese.

It is almost like your Chinese neighbor decides to move into your house (supposedly to “help” you without your asking), brings in his whole family and ask you to move into the garage. Tells you to learn Chinese if you want to live in this house; closes the door and shoots if your kid tries to sneak out. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nangpa_La_killings. )
Builds a huge driveway so that they can move out your TVs and stuff; Brags to the whole neighborhood of how nice they have been by building a driveway for you.


Right now, there are reportings of Chinese soldiers doing door to door search and killing young Tibetans at random.

FREE TIBET

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Given China's human rights record, particularly with regards to Tibet and the Falun Gong, I plan to boycott as much as is possible any companies that become official sponsors of the Beijing Olympics. Obviously that won't be possible in all cases (Visa), but I will try to find e-mail links at least to voice my disapproval and tell these companies that I hold them jointly responsible for China's human rights atrocities. You'd think at my age I would have learned the lesson about whizzing into the wind, but I can't in good conscience pass up this opportunity to make some kind of personal statement about China's conduct.

I'm already engaged in a "soft" made in China consumer boycott. By soft, I mean that I read labels and whenever there's an option to buy a product that's not made in China, I will. Certainly that's not always possible, but it's surprising how often you can chose to buy a product that wasn't made in China rather than one that was.

Take some time and read about the USA's role in the Cambodia civil war in the 1970's. IMO, the USA has supported the most horrific war crimes of the past 50 years.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Given China's human rights record, particularly with regards to Tibet and the Falun Gong, I plan to boycott as much as is possible any companies that become official sponsors of the Beijing Olympics.

I'm just curious how you link human rights and the Olympics together.

This frustrates me the most. The Olympics should be a time of international unity, where the world's greatest athletes showcase their skills and represent their country. Instead, everyone is turning it into a huge political battle.

Leave the god damn Olympics out of it.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

In the context of the Olympics, I think China cares very little about improving their image.

They probably feel that they're going to show the world how the Olympics should be done, and they're going to bring in billions in hard currency based around that.

Disagree here with only your first sentence. China is ALL about face as is most of Asia. Gotta look good an NOT lose face. It is all about image. Then is back to running over protesters with tanks when the cameras are off.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I'm just curious how you link human rights and the Olympics together.

This frustrates me the most. The Olympics should be a time of international unity, where the world's greatest athletes showcase their skills and represent their country. Instead, everyone is turning it into a huge political battle.

Leave the god damn Olympics out of it.

Because China is using the Olympics as an opportunity to promote themselves on the world stage as good guys, all the while committing human rights atrocities behind the scenes. I'm not advocating that the athletes boycott the games, nor am I advocating that viewers and spectators boycott the athletic events either in person or on television. But I am more than willing to use the opportunity to let corporate sponsors know that I disapprove of China's human rights record in the hopes that these corporations pass the message along to China's government and industry leaders. I'm not the one who politicized the Olympics ... that distinction likely belongs to Hitler. But since the Olympics are in fact politicized, why should governments be the only ones to exploit the process. Why is it wrong for me to do so as well? If governments want to leave the "god damn Olympics out of it", I'd be happy to as well.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Take some time and read about the USA's role in the Cambodia civil war in the 1970's. IMO, the USA has supported the most horrific war crimes of the past 50 years.

You won't get an argument from me there. Not sure how this changes or impacts on China's actions though.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

You won't get an argument from me there. Not sure how this changes or impacts on China's actions though.

I think outside of Canada and a few Euro nations, hideous war crimes are being committed by almost every country in the world. China is no angel, but I think they've become a easy target of sorts.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I think outside of Canada and a few Euro nations, hideous war crimes are being committed by almost every country in the world. China is no angel, but I think they've become a easy target of sorts.

I think the thing that really gets me about China is that what they're doing can't even be justified as war crimes. Organ harvesting and the other things they're doing to the Falun Gong is so wrong on so many levels, as is their ongoing cultural genocide in Tibet. It's just too Orwellian for me. I know the US and many other nations are guilty of atrocities as well, but that doesn't make what they or China are doing okay. I don't follow your logic here ... it's okay because everyone else is doing it?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I think the thing that really gets me about China is that what they're doing can't even be justified as war crimes. Organ harvesting and the other things they're doing to the Falun Gong is so wrong on so many levels, as is their ongoing cultural genocide in Tibet. It's just too Orwellian for me. I know the US and many other nations are guilty of atrocities as well, but that doesn't make what they or China are doing okay. I don't follow your logic here ... it's okay because everyone else is doing it?

I think my point is that I don't see why you (?) would be going tot he extent of boycotting their olympics and such, would you do that for the USA?

I also don't see the correlation between the olympics and their human rights problems. I think if you see issue with it, your efforts are better suited with things like supporting Amnesty International and organizations like that. (Just my opinion, not trying to tell you what to say or think)

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I think my point is that I don't see why you (?) would be going tot he extent of boycotting their olympics and such, would you do that for the USA?

I also don't see the correlation between the olympics and their human rights problems. I think if you see issue with it, your efforts are better suited with things like supporting Amnesty International and organizations like that. (Just my opinion, not trying to tell you what to say or think)

Your comments are fair and reasonable. I haven't gone so far as to boycott anything and everything US, but I certainly have a personal boycott on many US corporations that I see as being unethical. I won't get into which ones and why as that would be another debate entirely. But I think one of the important and effective ways for me to protest things I see as wrong is to do so with my pocket book. Ultimately, that's all that matters to these guys. And I let them know as well. I also realize that I'm whizzing into the wind as one small voice in the wind, but I still have to do it.

As far as connecting human rights and the Olympics, it's not the Olympics themselves that I'm connecting human rights with ... it's China's use of the Olympics as a political platform to try and cover up their human rights violations that I'm linking to. If China wants to use the Olympics to try and gloss over and cover up their human rights record, which they are, then they're fair game in my view. I don't think they should be able to get away with that without being called out for it.

Edit: I'm not advocating a boycott of the Olympics themselves. In my first post on this, it outlined that I'm boycotting wherever possible the corporate sponsors of the Olympics, and letting them know why. I'm not advocating that the athletes should boycott the Olympics, nor that people should not watch or attend in support of the athletes. I intend to watch myself. But if Nike for example is an official sponsor, I'm going to boycott Nike and let them know why in the hopes that if there's enough people do this it will filter back to China's government and industry leaders. Am I whizzing in the wind? Probably. But it feels good to at least try and get a message through.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Shouldn't Tibetans be the ones to decide that for themselves?

Originally Posted by Burninator

Well they want the world to help them so they can get their country back. But I don't want to help them unless they want Democracy. I'm not really interested in putting a Oligarchy (monk class) into power, religious or otherwise. And obviously they need someones help because they can't take on the super giant that is China by themselves.

This is a little confusing. You're essentially saying "I don't care what type of government they want, I want to impose a system on them that allows them to choose what type of government they want."

[HotHotHeat]

Yikes, if people think the Olympics are just about sport they need to give their head a shake. Anytime there's international relations involved, its a big freaking deal. Everyone has an agenda, and they plan to carry out that agenda using the Olympics as stage.

Yes, in an ideal world sport would be just about the sport...But that's not the world we live.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Disagree here with only your first sentence. China is ALL about face as is most of Asia. Gotta look good an NOT lose face. It is all about image. Then is back to running over protesters with tanks when the cameras are off.

But the Chinese feel that they would lose face if they step back on any of the above mentioned things and appear to bow to external influences.

I mean, frankly their reaction to their shoddy products that went on to other nations was a joke, they picked the lowest possible scapegoat and shot him and expected the world to stop pressing them.

The Chinese have no concept of how the world works beyond their unique cultural model.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Take some time and read about the USA's role in the Cambodia civil war in the 1970's. IMO, the USA has supported the most horrific war crimes of the past 50 years.

Frankly I don't see what this has to do with a thread on China and their recent actions, and the effect of their behavior on the upcoming Olympics?.