Property Line Issue with Neighbor

[I-Hate-Hulse]

I live in an older neighborhood and my neighbor has ripped down the house and is putting in a single infill.

Communication from their end has not been good - they dug right up to the property line and had some dirt from our side of the line cave in (including a garden that was there). They have since agreed to restore the garden. They also ripped down a 3 foot high wire fence that was there before in the course of construction.

Here's the thing. They believe from their property survey that the previous fence was improperly built 1.5 feet inwards on their side of the fence. That is, they are going to rebuild the fence 1.5 feet closer to our house - which will obliterate the garden - let alone give it any light after a 6 foot fence is built. It will also impede access to that side of the house if it's moved in as our deck would be built right up against the revised "property line".

That also brings me to another concern - if I push this too far, could the City cite me for having built a deck right up against a property line, and I'd have to get an easement? This deck was built in 1981, not by myself.

Where do I stand here legally? What would be a suggested course of action? I'm thinking of asking for a copy of their property survey (is there a paper document?) that forms the basis of their moving the line. I'd like to have a face to face meeting with the new owner, but I'd like to know where I stand legally before I go into that meeting. Thanks!

[4X4]

Go have a look at your RPR. If your fence is on their property, shut up and deal with it (so that your deck doesn't get looked at..).
And BTW, an easement isn't that difficult to obtain. Just have a double rye and ginger before going in to talk to the beast behind the desk...

[burn_this_city]

Wouldnt squatters rights take precident..? I'm pretty sure that property is now yours..

[You Need a Thneed]

Check to see thier real property report, also check yours to confirm where the property line actually is. Perhaps, if they are willing to rebuild the garden, you can persaude them to rebuild it a little further away from the fence. (you helping them out would probobly ease the persuding)

Decks require Development permits. The city grants lots of development permits for existing decks, but one built right to the property line might be a little bit of an issue.

Ask to see the property reports, then decide what you want to do, then have a meeting with the new owner. Be cooperative where you can, that will help them to look out for you as well as themselves.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by fotze

I thought decks only require a permit if they are greater than 0.5 m in height?

arent most decks?

[photon]

On older bungalows?

I thought if it was a ground level deck it could go right to the property line?

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

You must have had your own RPP when you bought. That should give you a sense of whether they are right.

If not, you can always have your own done too. What are they ...$500?

Is the house coming closer to you too? I know someone who moved their house and built a new one in Mount royal, and the city would not approve their new house because it would create too much shade for the neighbours garden. They had all kinds of issues like that. Maybe you have more leverage then you think?

[Thor]

Amazing how a reasonable neighbor would make all this mute, why do people have to be so annoying?

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

I think IHH is a pretty reasonable guy. Maybe a little annoying...

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by fotze

I thought decks only require a permit if they are greater than 0.5 m in height?

Sorry for nit picking, but it's 600mm (2ft).

http://content.calgary.ca/CCA/City+B.../Deck/Deck.htm

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by fotze

I thought decks only require a permit if they are greater than 0.5 m in height?

that's a building permit issue, not a development permit issue. A deck being too close to a side Property line would be a development permit issue.

http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/...wood_decks.pdf

That's a link that lists off some development permit requirements for decks, including the distances they must be from prperty lines. It should be noted that decks can extend no further to property lines then the actual house can.

The standards are:
3m from front property line (6m in some cases - along certain streets)
6m from rear property line
1.2m from side property lines.

You can probobly get a relaxation to get a little closer to the PL, but you woudn't be able to reduce it down to 0.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

I think IHH is a pretty reasonable guy. Maybe a little annoying...

well atleast he made a good choice for his avatar. that picture is ridiculously hot.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Check to see thier real property report, also check yours to confirm where the property line actually is. Perhaps, if they are willing to rebuild the garden, you can persaude them to rebuild it a little further away from the fence. (you helping them out would probobly ease the persuding)

Decks require Development permits. The city grants lots of development permits for existing decks, but one built right to the property line might be a little bit of an issue.

Ask to see the property reports, then decide what you want to do, then have a meeting with the new owner. Be cooperative where you can, that will help them to look out for you as well as themselves.

Thanks guys - one bit of info I forgot to mention - this is a 3 unit townhouse complex. Although I did get the registered condo plan at purchase, I'm not aware of any RPR for this. If there is one, would Registries have one? Were RPR's available in 1981?

You're right - a little visit from the new neighbors during the earlier stages (I'd of taken a letter) to explain the situation would have appreciated. Instead, they drive a Bobcat through the g/f's garden. WDF? Whatever happened to good ole' courtesy?

Fact is the house is built - rather than get into a huge battle over the property line - I'm hoping we can figure out a compromise on fencing. Sigh...after battling it out 5 years as Board Prez on a couple condos.... I'm getting tired of expending so much time fighting these fights.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Thanks guys - one bit of info I forgot to mention - this is a 3 unit townhouse complex. Although I did get the registered condo plan at purchase, I'm not aware of any RPR for this. If there is one, would Registries have one? Were RPR's available in 1981?

RPRs are available now. If you were to sell the house, you'd need one. They cost around $350. A guy comes out with a bunch of equipment and maps your house onto paper.

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

You're right - a little visit from the new neighbors during the earlier stages (I'd of taken a letter) to explain the situation would have appreciated. Instead, they drive a Bobcat through the g/f's garden. WDF? Whatever happened to good ole' courtesy?

Seriously lame. I bet that the builder doesn't even realize that his trade did that. If you talked to him, he'd probably apologize profusely and make it right somehow. It is bad business to piss people off that way. I just took over supervising for my uncle's building company and he'd have me swimming with the fishes if I let something like that go.

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Fact is the house is built - rather than get into a huge battle over the property line - I'm hoping we can figure out a compromise on fencing. Sigh...after battling it out 5 years as Board Prez on a couple condos.... I'm getting tired of expending so much time fighting these fights.

Property line is way too important for the builder to screw up. He'd never pass inspection. Chances are that your garden was indeed in the wrong place. But still, no businessman in his right mind wants to create bad blood in a community. Give him a call. Keep your cool. Money is hard to pry from people, but when it solves a dispute like this, it often flows a little easier.
Good luck.

[guzzy]

GEt a copy of the RPR (real property Report) and check it against the survey. Surveyors can be wrong. I managed a project two years where the I had to send 3 different survery groups out to a gas plant and had different results every time.

If the RPR backs up the legal survery you are screwed. Did you take insurance when you bought the house? There would have been an option to take out insurance if your fence was on his property. IF he is right with his survey he can move the fence at your cost. Let's hope for your sake he doesn't know that. As far as your deck, an easement in only $250. Just cut the corner of the deck off to avoid it. It sucks

Sorry to hear your bad news. My house turns 100 next year so I know of the problems you mention. The previous owner wouldn't pay the insurance on the fence encroachment but did pay the easement on my deck being to close to the fence. My neighbour doesn't care about the 12". She is lazy and means less grass to cut.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Dan02

well atleast he made a good choice for his avatar. that picture is ridiculously hot.

i was just kidding - playing at Thor's post

[mots]

Well I just finished building a new infill, and I was in the same situation, except on the other side of the fence. It turns out that the neighbour had his fence 18" onto out property.

A RPR might not really be too too helpfull, but this is:

When the surveyors come out (which they did before he started excavating), they put in these big one foot sledges/nails into the ground to mark where the property line is. There should be one at the front of the property, one at the back, although sometimes they might be in 5-7 meters from the street, as your house has to be 5meters (i think) set back. These nails usually have a little piece of flourescent tape on them, so you can find them. It is also illegal by law to remove these, so they definately are there. Find the front one, find the back one and run a string line between and Voila! here's your property line.

[Locke]

Have you ever considered just burning your neighbor's crap to the ground?

Nothing says "dont mess with me" like arson.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

i was just kidding - playing at Thor's post

as was I.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Locke

Have you ever considered just burning your neighbor's crap to the ground?

Nothing says "dont mess with me" like arson.

Naww.... our fresh air intake is on that side..... Besides, they've shot themselves in the head financially. For what they paid for the lot + construction costs - they'll never be able to recover their costs as it's a ridiculously small house and lot with no garage.

Some survey types came out and marked a florescent orange dot on the curb that was in line with the old fence - would this correspond to the pins? Not sure why they chose to ignore this. Thanks for the tip on where the pins are - I'll try and take a look for them tonight. Are they buried?

I was the at the Danish Canadian Club and they had an aerial map of Calgary circa 1914 or something. Found my lot on the map so it's definitely vintage... Kind of neat for someone who grew up in the Burbs.