Blue Jays were 15th in payroll for the 2007 season

[OILFAN #81]

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=228040&hubname=

Jays spent $95 M and were 15th. Yankees were 1st at $218 M. Over $60 M more then 2nd place Boston.

[Prototype]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=228040&hubname=

Jays spent $95 M and were 15th. Yankees were 1st at $218 M. Over $60 M more then 2nd place World Series Champion Boston.

Fixed

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by Prottotype

Fixed

Lol. 2nd place in terms of spending money. Everyone knows they won the World Series!

[Cheese]

Gotta love MLBs salary cap.

[nickerjones]

but tha yankees have to pay more in luxury tax lol !!!!!! im a braves fan but i do find it funny the yankees are paying big bucks to play golf early every year

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

but tha yankees have to pay more in luxury tax lol !!!!!! im a braves fan but i do find it funny the yankees are paying big bucks to play golf early every year

I can't remember for sure, but I think the Braves were golfing before the Yankees this year.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Gotta love MLBs salary cap.

If by salary cap you mean by how much the Yankee's will spend...you would be correct.

[evman150]

How sick is it that the top team had a payroll almost seven times bigger than the bottom team's?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by evman150

How sick is it that the top team had a payroll almost seven times bigger than the bottom team's?

It's been as much as 10x in the last few years. Not that 7x is very good. Keep in mind that the Yankees also payed 100 million in revenue sharing to other teams. It truly is killing the sport, baseball needs a salary cap - bad, and get back to having only a 2x difference between the top teams and bottom teams - lets say 120 million top to 60 M bottom, or even 140M - 70 M would work. Of course, there's some baseball teams out there that don't want to spend 60-70M

How they get that kind of revenue from such a boring, dull "sport" is another question. (but I suppose that's just my opinion)

[habernac]

anyone who puts "sport" in quotation marks about baseball has obviously never played the game.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

It's been as much as 10x in the last few years. Not that 7x is very good. Keep in mind that the Yankees also payed 100 million in revenue sharing to other teams. It truly is killing the sport, baseball needs a salary cap - bad, and get back to having only a 2x difference between the top teams and bottom teams - lets say 120 million top to 60 M bottom, or even 140M - 70 M would work. Of course, there's some baseball teams out there that don't want to spend 60-70M

How they get that kind of revenue from such a boring, dull "sport" is another question. (but I suppose that's just my opinion)

Why do they need a cap? They have different teams win the world series every year. They have new teams in the playoffs ever year. A team like Detroit can go from losing 100+ games to the World Series in a couple of seasons. Teams that spend money foolishly get punished severely like Baltimore and Texas. Teams that draft well and scout well succeed. There's nothing wrong with the baseball system at all.

Baseball fans are dedicated. They will watch religiously which brings in all the money.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Why do they need a cap? They have different teams win the world series every year. They have new teams in the playoffs ever year. A team like Detroit can go from losing 100+ games to the World Series in a couple of seasons. Teams that spend money foolishly get punished severely like Baltimore and Texas. Teams that draft well and scout well succeed. There's nothing wrong with the baseball system at all.

Baseball fans are dedicated. They will watch religiously which brings in all the money.

Since 1994, the Yankees have been 1 of 4 teams from the AL to make the playoffs. Money might not buy you a WS Ring as evidenced in short series, but it will buy you that shot to keep going back to the playoffs each and every year.

The Oakland A's will tell you another story about that. How they've had to trade away all their quality picks/aquistions because they cannot afford to keep the ones who've had success.

The Yankees in particular, their minor league system couldn't produce a thing until Cano came up for a good number of years, and that is only because Brian Cashman, after being the Yanks GM for a couple years *finally* realized that it is better to invest money in Draft picks than constantly overpay for tons of free agents - and George told him that yes, he in fact did have a 'budget'. But they still made the playoffs, inspite of not producing anything of value from their system. Hell, one of the guys they traded for Abreu was a below money slot pick. I mean the Yankees of all people cheaping out on picks?

No Girlysports, you are just plain wrong on this. Money trumps all in baseball - it covers up mistakes - Pavano anyone? That Japanese guy they paid 10 million a season (25 millionish posting fee + 5 per year), whose name I forget? Giambi being one of the highest paid free agents in baseball who is producing at well below what is expected of him? The Jays couldn't afford to make crippling decisions like that. It gets you to the playoffs and makes you win - a combination of the 2 makes you unstoppable, which you will see in a few years once the Yankees young pitchers develop and they add a few more big name free agents.

Anyways, Detroit spent the money and had a combination of good, young talent, which they paid significantly overslot money for. Something which the Jays *cannot* or do not do, because they are in Selig's pocket.

[habernac]

Baseball desperately needs a cap. They're losing fans who are sick of the Yankees or the Red Sox trying to out buy each other for the World Series. Once in a blue moon, you'll get a team like the Rockies who over achieve, but it's the teams that spend ######ed amounts of cash that do well year after year.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Since 1994, the Yankees have been 1 of 4 teams from the AL to make the playoffs. Money might not buy you a WS Ring as evidenced in short series, but it will buy you that shot to keep going back to the playoffs each and every year.

The Oakland A's will tell you another story about that. How they've had to trade away all their quality picks/aquistions because they cannot afford to keep the ones who've had success.

The Yankees in particular, their minor league system couldn't produce a thing until Cano came up for a good number of years, and that is only because Brian Cashman, after being the Yanks GM for a couple years *finally* realized that it is better to invest money in Draft picks than constantly overpay for tons of free agents - and George told him that yes, he in fact did have a 'budget'. But they still made the playoffs, inspite of not producing anything of value from their system. Hell, one of the guys they traded for Abreu was a below money slot pick. I mean the Yankees of all people cheaping out on picks?

No Girlysports, you are just plain wrong on this. Money trumps all in baseball - it covers up mistakes - Pavano anyone? That Japanese guy they paid 10 million a season (25 millionish posting fee + 5 per year), whose name I forget? Giambi being one of the highest paid free agents in baseball who is producing at well below what is expected of him? The Jays couldn't afford to make crippling decisions like that. It gets you to the playoffs and makes you win - a combination of the 2 makes you unstoppable, which you will see in a few years once the Yankees young pitchers develop and they add a few more big name free agents.

Anyways, Detroit spent the money and had a combination of good, young talent, which they paid significantly overslot money for. Something which the Jays *cannot* or do not do, because they are in Selig's pocket.

I'm not sure you can hide mistakes. The Yankee mistakes you mention all happened after their last world series win so they have been hurt. Sure they can make the playoffs but what's the point when they crash in the 1st round? I wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees miss the playoffs in 2008.

Oakland has increased their payroll and kept the players they have wanted to like Chavez. They have the same payroll as Toronto. Wouldn't you agree that the big 3 Hudson Zito and Mulder are waaaay overpaid and are having terrible seasons? This is smart management because they are still always in contention.

To the original post I was replying to. I'm not sure how a 60M to 120M range would help. Wouldn't the top 15 teams have a good chance of getting in anyways?

I guess this goes back to what system people like. I like big teams and little teams. So I like seeing the Yankees in the playoffs every year and laugh when they fail.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by habernac

Baseball desperately needs a cap. They're losing fans who are sick of the Yankees or the Red Sox trying to out buy each other for the World Series. Once in a blue moon, you'll get a team like the Rockies who over achieve, but it's the teams that spend ######ed amounts of cash that do well year after year.

Not sure about that. Doesn't a Yankees/Red Sox ALCS get the highest ratings in the land? Don't people on this board talk more when this series happens?

Just think of it as the Pats and Colts meeting each other every year.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Not sure about that. Doesn't a Yankees/Red Sox ALCS get the highest ratings in the land? Don't people on this board talk more when this series happens?

Just think of it as the Pats and Colts meeting each other every year.

The Pats and Colts are there because they manage their players and their cap well, not because they spend more than everyone else. Huge difference there.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by habernac

The Pats and Colts are there because they manage their players and their cap well, not because they spend more than everyone else. Huge difference there.

Yes that is true. But how do you know under a cap system the Yankees and Red Sox wouldn't manage their players and their cap well also. Rich teams in baseball would still succeed under the cap. They would spend money to hire better coaches, scouts, farm system and resources.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I'm not sure you can hide mistakes. The Yankee mistakes you mention all happened after their last world series win so they have been hurt. Sure they can make the playoffs but what's the point when they crash in the 1st round? I wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees miss the playoffs in 2008.

Oakland has increased their payroll and kept the players they have wanted to like Chavez. They have the same payroll as Toronto. Wouldn't you agree that the big 3 Hudson Zito and Mulder are waaaay overpaid and are having terrible seasons? This is smart management because they are still always in contention.

To the original post I was replying to. I'm not sure how a 60M to 120M range would help. Wouldn't the top 15 teams have a good chance of getting in anyways?

I guess this goes back to what system people like. I like big teams and little teams. So I like seeing the Yankees in the playoffs every year and laugh when they fail.

The point is ANYTHING can happen in a 5 game/7 game series and making the playoffs is a huge accomplishment. Chance to win the WS when you make the playoffs? 1/8. Chance to make it is you don't? 0.

Oakland just traded Nick Swisher and Dan Haren. Their star hitter and their ace pitcher. They also had to let Tejada, Damon and Giambi amoung others walk because they couldn't afford them. Hell, Beane came out and said before Tejada's last season in Oakland that they couldn't afford to keep him, so there will be no negoitations. Yeah, and money doesn't matter . Their home grown talent walked.

So if the Jays paid Pavano 7 million a season, that wouldn't cause problems on their payroll? Money can hide problems. That is why NY can afford a guy like Damon being their 4th OF next year, brutally overpaid. Imagine if the Jays sunk that kind of money into brutal players like that?

Sure, resigning some of those players might not look too good now, but they sure didn't have any other options but to walk. Zito is also one of the better pitchers in the league, after a poor year with SF he will rebound. Also, Hudson is a pretty damned fine pitcher, says his 224.1 IP, 16 wins and 3.33 ERA last season. Mulder has suffered awful, likely close to career ending injuries, his journey back will be long, but that is what insurance is for.

The only way little teams win is through pure luck. The truth is, you hate the little teams. Look for Boston to repeat next season anyways. Detroit, without the money wouldn't be competitive anymore. They were a 1 hit wonder, but now boosted it with the likes of Willis/Cabrera/Sheffield, etc etc. Not to mention the massive contracts that their pitchers will be getting. The 6 year window is so damned small, that there is no way to keep them together.

[Sylvanfan]

Well Baseball as a bussiness is very successful. As much as Yankee haters dislike it, having them or Boston in the playoffs generally has been good for T.V. ratings and getting good T.V. money.

Baseballs problem is that the draft is horribly unfair because there is no cap on what draft picks can make and teams are now having to put these top picks on their 40 man roster from the day they're drafted. Jonathan Papelbon, Joba Chamberlain, and Jacoby Ellsbury were no big secret...it just happend that the Sox and Yankees could afford these guys and no one else could take that risk. If the draft could be somehow made to be fair for all 32 teams and if teams had the rights to players a couple extra years than the economic system might work a bit better.

Make no mistake, MLB loves having a powerhouse team like the Yankees in the playoffs every year and have every one else gun for them. If they could adjust the draft rules and somehow go with a balanced schedule I think they could keep going without a salary cap and maybe give some other teams a chance to turn themselves around. Right now with the current rules, it's very tough to rebuild through the draft in MLB.

[JayP]

As it's been mentioned, some of the biggest problem's with baseball's economics have nothing to do with free agency.

Similar to Sylvan's comments about the draft, signing foreign players is another huge advantage the Yankees and Red Sox have. Teams like the Blue Jays simply can't afford to pay unknowns like elite players so the entire market for foreign stars is limited to the huge spenders.

One event that cries for a salary cap in my mind is the Bobby Abreu trade at the deadline 2 years ago. I'm talking about how the Yankees got Corey Lidle (probably the best pitcher readily available) as a throw-in for taking on Abreu's salary. At the time it was rumored that the Jays would have to give up Rios to get Lidle. But because the Yankees can take on Abreu's ridiculous salary they can get the best pitcher available for nothing (and Abreu's bat).