Redskins safety Sean Taylor shot in Florida, passes away

[CaptainCrunch]

You know that I'm one of those people that refuses to blame music. But I think that the thing that resonates with me is two fold

1) Hip Hop is a culture, Rap is a culture, the music itself has trancended being just music. Sure there are some examples of rap and hip hop with positive messages, but compared to the ones that talk violence, and killing, and doing drugs, and degrading woman, its overwhelming. I've always said that if Rap or Hip Hop got away from the overwhelming cultural message that the above things are acceptable and focused more around healing that community, the violent crime rates would probably drop

2) It seems like Hip Hop and Rap are so closely married to the romatisized gang lifestyle, that its almost like a recruiting ad for joining brotherhoods. I'm not saying that its the only reason, but its certainly a big reason why these kids are falling this way.

You can talk about the violence in heavy metal music, or the promiscuity in electronic or dance music, but their message and their impact is nowhere near the impact that is effected by rap and hip hop.

Just my 2 cents

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Montana Moe

He was not allowed to posess a firearm due to a previous incident which involved a firearm. (see: Tank Johnson) So I guess a machete is the next logical choice...

A friend of mine works with a guy whose son is an athletic trainer for the Redskins (I know its quite a reach, like 4th hand info.) He said some within the Redskins organization believe it was a family member.

Antrel Rolle does not buy the burglary premise either:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3132378

There is going to be a ton of speculation in the coming weeks, well if the cops actually spend the time to look into a death involving a black man.

However I have also heard that Taylor had a ton of girls on the go and some believe it might be one of them. Who knows, it will be interesting to see the details and conclusion in a few months time, as more stories and speculation will continue to come out.

I still don't know how people can blame the music, kinda blows my mind. Wouldn't the way these guys grew up and the lives they had to live before being rich and famous have more to do with the way they live their life?

I listen to rap music and I don't have the feeling to be a gangbanger or a thug. I just think its a weak argument and the media always wants to jump on the "Rap is bad" bandwagon as soon as a black man gets shot.

Its america's fault that these kids have to grow up thinking this is the only way to get ahead. Work on getting people out of a "ghetto" life style and they will make better decisions.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I still don't know how people can blame the music, kinda blows my mind. Wouldn't the way these guys grew up and the lives they had to live before being rich and famous have more to do with the way they live their life?

I listen to rap music and I don't have the feeling to be a gangbanger or a thug. I just think its a weak argument and the media always wants to jump on the "Rap is bad" bandwagon as soon as a black man gets shot.

Its america's fault that these kids have to grow up thinking this is the only way to get ahead. Work on getting people out of a "ghetto" life style and they will make better decisions.

I think its a bit of a broad stroke in blaming America for their difficulties, to me it comes down to individual choices.

On the second paragraph, I don't know about where you grew up or your upbringing, but as I said before Rap and Hip Hop resonates as a cultural thing for the poor and dis-enfranchised community. So as an example, it won't have as much of an effect on a person who grows up in a middle class or rich neighbourhood who has the educational or monetary opportunities, but I believe that it absolutely feasts on the young in the poorer neighbourhoods because it glorifies the easy path to wealth through violence.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think its a bit of a broad stroke in blaming America for their difficulties, to me it comes down to individual choices.

On the second paragraph, I don't know about where you grew up or your upbringing, but as I said before Rap and Hip Hop resonates as a cultural thing for the poor and dis-enfranchised community. So as an example, it won't have as much of an effect on a person who grows up in a middle class or rich neighbourhood who has the educational or monetary opportunities, but I believe that it absolutely feasts on the young in the poorer neighbourhoods because it glorifies the easy path to wealth through violence.

But before rap and even pretending it wasn't here, do you think that would change the way a 15-25 year old black man from the ghetto would live his life? Do you think things would change at all?

And I came from a family who shows things can change, going from wel-fair when I was born to now having almost anything I want.

However I don't think America (goverment, corporations, ect.) gives people an easy chance to change. Its all about profits. Companies want to pay their employee the least amount as possible and the government could change that by raising min. wage but they don't because big business is who pays to get them elected.

You would have to work 3-4 full time jobs to survive in some of those states because of their min. wage laws. Going to Florida quite a bit I have met people like bartenders and waitress' who working in a "Tip Based Job" in Florida intitles you not to the min. wage of $6.40 but to $3.88/hr. In Alabama they don't have a min. wage, and some people work for $2.15/hr plus tips. That is just crazy!

Give someone a fair chance to survive and I think you would see a huge change. I think Notorious BIG said it best on how they about their choices - "Either ya slingin' crack rock or ya got a wicked jump shot"

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by HOOT

But before rap and even pretending it wasn't here, do you think that would change the way a 15-25 year old black man from the ghetto would live his life? Do you think things would change at all?

I think that if you look at your last statement you would answer your own question. "Either ya slingin' crack rock or ya got a wicked jump shot", thats pretty simplified. There are far more choices then that. But to me a lot of the rap lyrics break down to "Money, bling, chicks" = "Thug life mentallity"

Originally Posted by HOOT

And I came from a family who shows things can change, going from wel-fair when I was born to now having almost anything I want.

Believe me I'm not denigrating what you and your family have done, but isn't the success of your family based around good decisions, and in a free society those decisions are available to everyone. Rap for the most part dosen't glorify making good choices, it glorifies what to us are bad choices, but it resonates in some of the poorer communities because Rap and Hip Hop equates bad choices with money and woman and all of that other stuff. Or how violence = best possible choice, and a violent lifestyle can lead to power and glory and wealth.

Originally Posted by HOOT

However I don't think America (goverment, corporations, ect.) gives people an easy chance to change. Its all about profits. Companies want to pay their employee the least amount as possible and the government could change that by raising min. wage but they don't because big business is who pays to get them elected.

I think thats really simplistic and makes for a easy system of blame. Should the government do more to lend that helping hand? Sure but the government like any other business doesn't have infinite resources. But the government doesn't take away the freedom to make choices. Sure the easy money is in slinging crack, or robbing liquor stores. And its harder to make money at a minimum wage job, but the fact that people make those bad choices to me is more of a fault of the instilled value system then an evil government trying to keep people down. Frankly its in the best interests of the government for people to make the right choices because more success stories = more tax revenues which = more money to spend.

Originally Posted by HOOT

You would have to work 3-4 full time jobs to survive in some of those states because of their min. wage laws. Going to Florida quite a bit I have met people like bartenders and waitress' who working in a "Tip Based Job" in Florida intitles you not to the min. wage of $6.40 but to $3.88/hr. In Alabama they don't have a min. wage, and some people work for $2.15/hr plus tips. That is just crazy!

Sure but how is that the governments fault? They have to balance the ability to business to viable so that those jobs are available. If your suddenly paying waitress' $20.00 per hour in salary, then its unlikely that anyone is going to be eating out and those businesses are going to fail. Same with menial labor jobs.

I'm not venting at you or anyone in particular, but it drives me crazy that its become so popular to blame external sources with an inability to improve your lifestyle through choices.

Frankly, for the most part, public schooling is available to everyone, A university, or collge or technical school education can be subsidized, and for the most part, the entrance requirements aren't that hard. It comes down to choices, and the hip hop, rap industry is flooding out garbage about the glorification of bad choices, and frankly, its not up to the government to clean it up, its up to the artists who are taking the easy road by bringing the level of the glorification of a thug life style to a socially acceptable and cliched level.

Originally Posted by HOOT

Give someone a fair chance to survive and I think you would see a huge change. I think Notorious BIG said it best on how they about their choices - "Either ya slingin' crack rock or ya got a wicked jump shot"

I think there is a fair chance for everyone, but people fail to grab onto it.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think there is a fair chance for everyone, but people fail to grab onto it.

BS.

You obviously haven't lived in a city in southern United states.

Kids have to learn to fight for their lives in the poor all black neighbourhoods at a very young age. If you can't find a way out of the community, you don't have much of a chance. The schools are awful in the bad neighbourhoods, and with programs like the ridiculous no child left behind, the schools that perform poorly get less and less funding. No decent teacher wants to teach there. There is not an opportunity for a black kid in a poor neighbourhood to go to a decent school. All the money goes into the white neighbourhood schools. The white people move to where the good schools are, or go to private school. So yeah, the government deserves the blame. Maybe I deserve the blame for moving out of our area by the time my children reach school age. But I'm not risking my child's education and safety just to do the right thing. Nobody would.

There are exceptions, and people do get out, but they are the exceptions.

It is funny though that everyone stereotypically decided that Sean Taylor was from the ghetto, when in fact he went to a very good high school and his dad was police chief.

It does seem like it may have just been a robbery after all, and they were targetting him for his fame/fortune, and didn't expect him to be home.

[moon]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

It is funny though that everyone stereotypically decided that Sean Taylor was from the ghetto, when in fact he went to a very good high school and his dad was police chief.

He may not have been from the ghetto but that didn't stop him from hanging around the wrong kind of people when he was young and at the U.

Just because he didn't grow up in the Ghetto doesn't mean that he still didn't lead a "thug" lifestyle or get mixed up with the "wrong" crowd.

[habernac]

arrests have been made:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3136414