Help with my Ethics Assignment..

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by lchoy

I agree with your 2nd paragraph about how we differ from animals, but I won't go as far to say that Darwin is wrong. Darwin theory isn't about that only the strong reproduce, but that adapbility is the driving factor of evolution. Sure it's easy for any Moron to reproduce, but from a sociology point of view, how successful could their offspring be if they come out of a weak socio-economic background? Just like in Africa, it is in the best interest of a so called "less success" person, to have as many children as possible, so that at least there will be a greater chance one of them will make it to adulthood. Also, in the age of social support structure and technology, the so called weak hae a better chance at surviving. People can be supported by the government, we have plastic surgury to improve ones looks, universal health care to provide basic prevention and treatment of disease. If we got back into a caveman society, or again look at primitive tribes around the world, the strongest or best of the group usually has all the advantages when it comes to mating. Hell, even in our modern society, qualities such as intelligence, wealth, and physical appearance are the things most sought after.

Hence, regression toward the mean.

BTW... not sure if you're aware, but the intelligent, wealthy, and physical attractive are the ones who are not breeding.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by evman150

That is not the same question at all.

The question posed is "What, in your view, is the purpose of life?"

My response was "to reproduce".

Then you say "the purpose of a being of any given species is to procreate".

So what are we arguing about? What does the last question have to do with anything?

The question you're answering is:
"What is the purpose of A life (form)?"
The question I'm trying to answer is:
"What is the purpose of the existence of life?"

Guess it's just a difference in how we interpreted the question.

[sadora]

1. What are your views regarding sex outside of marriage?

Not a problem if the two parties involved are consenting.

2. What are your views regarding homosexual or lesbian relationships?

If two people can make each other happy then it shouldn't matter what their sexual preference is.

3. What are your views on abortion?

I'm pro choice. There's just so many people out there that should not be parents to begin with.

4. Do you believe in moral absolutes (ie: that there are some things that are always right or wrong regardless of culture or religion)?

Yes. Murder for example. Regardless of whether or not you have religious beliefs, it is wrong to commit murder.

5. What, in your view, is the purpose of life?

To contribute and try to make this place at least a little bit better, not because of the fear that if you don't you're gonna go to hell, but because there is no better feeling than being able to look back on your life and feel completely satisfied.

6. What is your view of the Bible and what role should it play in our lives?

Faith, like any other lifestyle choices, should be kept at the individual level. PERSONAL choice. If you want to pick up a Bible, The Torah, or any other religious document is a matter of personal choice and should not be pushed on anyone.

7. Do you go to church? If so, how often?

Only times I go to church is for weddings and funerals. I'm a spiritual person but I don't believe in the church. If there is a God, or a higher power, then the best place to find that is everywhere, by living your life in an ethical manner and not in a house of stone where a guy in a dress is going to try to scare into believing something.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Mayer

A couple things from my point of view. I wanted to just view the responses but your last couple posts were really interesting and warrent some response.

First, I thinks its wrong to assume that people who are religious live crappy lives. I'm a Christian, I believe in a heaven and a hell, but my life is great! I have fun, I live life to the fullest etc. Just because I choose to not have sex until I'm married doesn't mean my life is boring. I assume this is what you were getting at with your post, if not, then ignore.

I wasn't actually talking about sex (although I must say, you are missing out on that front!), nor was I suggesting that all people who lead religious lives are unhappy.

What I was referring to are the downtrodden people in this world who are told that in exchange for their suffering, they will be rewarded - when there is nothing to indicate that is the case. Keep your head down, pray hard, and do as the church / mosque / cult leader tells you, and you will be eventually rewarded with a life in the clouds. Sometimes the belief system in some religions is downright horrendous – things like you should let your child die after a car accident because accepting a blood transfusion would condemn them to hell. An extreme case to be sure, but symbolic of many situations where “belief” in the “will of God” is considered more important than the facts on the ground.

You see it all the time. Things like homosexuality and the rights of women being suppressed for no reason – people being told they should live a certain way under specific rules, even if it runs contrary to themselves.

Look at this Congressman Craig character. He’s gay, but can’t admit it, so he would rather just live a lie. Even though everyone knows the truth. He probably believes that if he denies his homosexuality hard enough he still has a shot at heaven. Ditto for that Pastor from the movie “Jesus Camp”.

How come so many conservative Christians are gay? What’s up with that?

Originally Posted by Mayer

Second, in your original answering of the questions, I found it interesting that you said people who abuse children should be taken out of society, yet abortion is great.

There is a huge difference between an abuser who preys on a child, and a doctor performing a requested medical procedure, and frankly I am appalled you would look at the two as even remotely related.

Abortion is great because provides a great deal of help to our society. It allows young women freedom from the stigma of being forced to carry a child to term, and prevents unwanted children from entering the world to fend for themselves.

As far as when a fetus becomes a human – I don’t know. I suppose the accepted standard would probably be whatever the last point the medical community deems to be the last appropriate time to terminate a pregnancy. They would know better than I, and have more experts involved in the decision making process.

[Mayer]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

There is a huge difference between an abuser who preys on a child, and a doctor performing a requested medical procedure, and frankly I am appalled you would look at the two as even remotely related.

Abortion is great because provides a great deal of help to our society. It allows young women freedom from the stigma of being forced to carry a child to term, and prevents unwanted children from entering the world to fend for themselves.

As far as when a fetus becomes a human – I don’t know. I suppose the accepted standard would probably be whatever the last point the medical community deems to be the last appropriate time to terminate a pregnancy. They would know better than I, and have more experts involved in the decision making process.

Well it's clear we have very differing view's on abortion. What I hear you saying is that it gives young women the ability to be as irresponsible as they want without having to deal with any consequences. I don't like that. I hate that abortion is used as a form of birth control. But again, looks like we don't share the same views on this, clearly.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Mayer

Hey guys/girls.

As an assignment in my Ethics class, I'm supposed to conduct a survey type thing. There are 7 questions and I'd really appreciate anyone who would take the time to write down your opinion on these 7 ethical issues. It shouldn't take long, and it may spark some additional debate as well, which is always interesting. Anyways, here they are. You can respond in this thread, or if you prefer, you could PM me.

1. What are your views regarding sex outside of marriage?

Love it

2. What are your views regarding homosexual or lesbian relationships?

fine by me

3. Wht are your views on abortion?

Think it's none of my business
wouldn't want a girl I got pregnant to get one, but its ultimately her choice

4. Do you believe in moral absolutes (ie: that there are some things that are always right or wrong regardless of culture or religion)?

no

5. What, in your view, is the purpose of life?

have fun

6. What is your view of the Bible and what role should it play in our lives?

none

7. Do you go to church? If so, how often?

no

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Mayer

Well it's clear we have very differing view's on abortion. What I hear you saying is that it gives young women the ability to be as irresponsible as they want without having to deal with any consequences. I don't like that. I hate that abortion is used as a form of birth control. But again, looks like we don't share the same views on this, clearly.

I'm still curious to hear how you think abortion is related to child abuse.

As far as birth control goes, I don't imagine that you are going to find very many women at an abortion clinic with an attitude of cavalier nonchalance. It is a very emotional and traumatic thing to go through - so to suggest that it is "birth control without consequences"...

...well, I can only suppose you haven't known anyone who has had one. Because there are SEVERE consequences, physically, emotionally, and mentally.

In my experience the argument that it is frequently used as a form of "birth control" doesn't hold much water - I suspect it is largely a construct of the Pro Life movement. I certainly haven't known any women who have had abortions that considered it as a means of birth control. Perhaps if you look hard enough you might find a handful of "repeat" patients, but I doubt you will find many that advocate it as a way to avoid using prophylactics.

This is a measure most women would consider an absolute last resort.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Mayer

6. What is your view of the Bible and what role should it play in our lives?

Mayer:
I am assuming that since you are attending RMC you are an evangelical Christian. As an evangelical myself, I have come to observe that most of our movement are completely naive regarding the roots of evangelicalism, the history of the Bible, and the emergence of the doctrine of inerrency.

You really should read the following:

George Marsden, Fundamentalism and American Culture: The Shaping of Twentieth-Century Evangelicalism, 1870-1925. (New York: Oxford University Press, 1980.

Geroge Marsden, ed. Evangelicalism and Modern America, (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1984).

James Barr, Fundamentalism. (Second Ed.; London: SCM Press, 1981)

__________. Beyond Fundamentalism. (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1984).

John Barton, People of the Book? The Authority of the Bible in Christianity. (Philadelphia: Westminster John Knox, 1988).

[llama64]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Hence, regression toward the mean.

BTW... not sure if you're aware, but the intelligent, wealthy, and physical attractive are the ones who are not breeding.

This is why I've always thought it was dangerous to apply Darwin's theories to sociological problems. Human society far too seperated from other natural biological systems to have straight natural selection and evolution applied to it.

Darwin wasn't wrong (at least in this context), because he never meant his theory to be used in this way.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by troutman

Is it true they emphasize "intelligent design" at RMC?

Originally Posted by Mayer

I have not even heard it said once, so I'm guessing no, but I could just be missing it.

If this is true, then things have changed ALOT since I attended RMC waaaaaaay back in 1994.

I was only there for one year, embarking on my study to enter professional Christian ministry. The topic of creation was treated in very typical fashion in my Bible Introduction classes, so on the topic of theology v. science, the only question worthy of discussion was whether or not the narratrive in Genesis 1 is to be interpreted as literal days, or long ages. The doctrine of inerrency and biblical infallibility—which must, by very definition assume intelligent design—formed the foundation for every course I took in my short time at RMC. In recent conversations I have had with a friend who is now on staff there, it sounds like little has changed.

Troutman: The reason Mayer may not be clear on the school's position is because—as far as I know—there is never any discussions of real science at Rocky Mountain College. The closest I was able to find to a "science" course offered is found in the Department of "History and Thought":

Originally Posted by RMC Academic Catalogue

HTH289 — Science and Faith
A study that investigates the scientific method, and serves as a critical examination of the evidence taken to support the theory of evolution, with some focus on the emerging biotechnology of scientific and medical practices, and the ethical stands of Christianity

You will notice—beyond the fact that the course description is fairly poorly written; "ethical stands"?!?!?—that it reads like propoganda designed to combat evolution, abortion, euthenasia and human cloning.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Mayer

...6. What is your view of the Bible and what role should it play in our lives?...

What does anyone's "view" of the Bible matter, when our understanding of what the Bible is is extremely inaccurate?

There are two sides, generally, of this debate: on the one hand is the opinion that the Bible is a meaningless collection of fairytales with no bearing on the present. On the other hand is the conviction that the Bible is a narrative retelling of the universal history, and that it is completely accurate and it is normative for everyone, everywhere, at every time.

Both are patently false.

The Bible is most certainly a broad collection of religious myths, but this is different than ancient fictions or "fairytales". Ancient myths contained within them important interpretations of history, and thus, much of the material from the Bible is important historiographically. The Bible's primary importance, however, is felt religiously and culturally. It is perhaps the single most important "literary work"—and I use this term with some caution—of Western culture. It is the foundation, like it or not, of the legal and moral practice for the vast majority of Western civilizations, and for this reason, it is an important book to know. Also, the Bible is the surviving collection of sacred Scriptures for the largest religion on the face of the earth; the Hebrew Scriptures are foundational for Judaism and were a formative part of the religion of Islam. I do not care what your opinion is of these religions or religions in general, but the very fact that so many people take the Bible seriously makes it meaningful. More often than not, critics of the Christian and Jewish faith have failed to take account of the Bible's special significance.

On the other hand, the Bible is not a narrative work (although it does contain narrative); it is not linear, and it is not uniform. Itr is a collection, and by nature it is frequently chaotic in its presentation and organization. Among the sacred stories and legal codes are ancient prophecies, songs, oracles, dirges, apocalypses, wisdom teachings, proverbs, and even erotic poetry. It has long been regarded sacred mostly by virtue of its age and its own claim to authority. It was assembled over thousands of years and according to a variety of social, political, doctrinal programmes. Too often, religious people and Christians of a certain ilk have failed to account for the Bible's many foibles, falsehoods, and inconsistentices, and have ascribed to it an authority and a purpose that is entirely misplaced.

[Mayer]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

I'm still curious to hear how you think abortion is related to child abuse.

As far as birth control goes, I don't imagine that you are going to find very many women at an abortion clinic with an attitude of cavalier nonchalance. It is a very emotional and traumatic thing to go through - so to suggest that it is "birth control without consequences"...

...well, I can only suppose you haven't known anyone who has had one. Because there are SEVERE consequences, physically, emotionally, and mentally.

In my experience the argument that it is frequently used as a form of "birth control" doesn't hold much water - I suspect it is largely a construct of the Pro Life movement. I certainly haven't known any women who have had abortions that considered it as a means of birth control. Perhaps if you look hard enough you might find a handful of "repeat" patients, but I doubt you will find many that advocate it as a way to avoid using prophylactics.

This is a measure most women would consider an absolute last resort.

I don't think I ever said that abortion was related to child abuse. I was simply saying that it was odd that you despised child abuse so much but had no problem ending the life of one that has yet to be born. Regardless of what you think about when a fetus is a life, you are still taking the possibility of life away from that child (again, I don't have my mind completely made up on abortion, I just found that to be interesting...thats all).

The reason I KNOW that the argument of abortion often being used as birth control is because my mom works in the Crisis Pregnancy Care Center in town here, and she sees it a lot. So no, I haven't known someone personally, but I have heard it first hand. That being said, you are correct in saying that for a lot of women it's a traumatic experience that has consequences. She sees that a lot too and does post abortion counselling with them.

[Mayer]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If this is true, then things have changed ALOT since I attended RMC waaaaaaay back in 1994.

I was only there for one year, embarking on my study to enter professional Christian ministry. The topic of creation was treated in very typical fashion in my Bible Introduction classes, so on the topic of theology v. science, the only question worthy of discussion was whether or not the narratrive in Genesis 1 is to be interpreted as literal days, or long ages. The doctrine of inerrency and biblical infallibility—which must, by very definition assume intelligent design—formed the foundation for every course I took in my short time at RMC. In recent conversations I have had with a friend who is now on staff there, it sounds like little has changed.

Troutman: The reason Mayer may not be clear on the school's position is because—as far as I know—there is never any discussions of real science at Rocky Mountain College. The closest I was able to find to a "science" course offered is found in the Department of "History and Thought":


You will notice—beyond the fact that the course description is fairly poorly written; "ethical stands"?!?!?—that it reads like propoganda designed to combat evolution, abortion, euthenasia and human cloning.

Yes, I was completely missing what troutman was saying for some reason. Like you said, creation is treated in a typical "christian" fashion. I believe (and it is taught this way at the school) in Creation over Evolution. That being said, the prof's at the school (not all, but a lot) seem to be more open-minded about science than in the past.

[Mayer]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Mayer:
I am assuming that since you are attending RMC you are an evangelical Christian. As an evangelical myself, I have come to observe that most of our movement are completely naive regarding the roots of evangelicalism, the history of the Bible, and the emergence of the doctrine of inerrency.

You really should read the following:

George Marsden, Fundamentalism and American Culture: The Shaping of Twentieth-Century Evangelicalism, 1870-1925. (New York: Oxford University Press, 1980.

Geroge Marsden, ed. Evangelicalism and Modern America, (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1984).

James Barr, Fundamentalism. (Second Ed.; London: SCM Press, 1981)

__________. Beyond Fundamentalism. (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1984).

John Barton, People of the Book? The Authority of the Bible in Christianity. (Philadelphia: Westminster John Knox, 1988).

Great, thank you very much. I will do that.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What does anyone's "view" of the Bible matter, when our understanding of what ....

Good post!

[Titan]

A comedian commenting on Republican values a la texas notices that they are against abortion and for capital punishment, apparently it is all in the timing!

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Titan

A comedian commenting on Republican values a la texas notices that they are against abortion and for capital punishment, apparently it is all in the timing!

Some would say that goes both ways though...

[flip]

1. What are your views regarding sex outside of marriage?
No problem with it at all. sex is as natural to humans as breathing why wait to do it until you get married (a flawed institution to begin with)

2. What are your views regarding homosexual or lesbian relationships?
again no problems with it. in fact why not let them get married. love between 2 men or 2 women doesn't mean any more or any less than marriage between a man and a woman.

3. What are your views on abortion?
I am concerned with the methods they use for abortion and the rights (or lack thereof) that men have when it comes to preventing a woman from having an abortion. never did understand why a woman is the only one who can make that choice (when she couldn't have done it without us) yet we still get stuck with the child support bills. if she wants it and he doesn't she has the kid. if she doesn't and he does she aborts it. isnt' parenthood 50/50 when did men get taken out of the equation/ end rant.

4. Do you believe in moral absolutes (ie: that there are some things that are always right or wrong regardless of culture or religion)?
yes and no. personally yes there are some things that you could never convince me are right like rape. and i think some moral absolutes are the result of nature not nurture. for the most part though i think our inner moral compass is the result of culture etc.

5. What, in your view, is the purpose of life?

agree with earlier poster. survive. anything beyond that and i think it relates to Question #4. purpose may be inspired by conditioning.

6. What is your view of the Bible and what role should it play in our lives?
outdated to say the least. vastly misinterpreted by many. should be viewed no differently than other fictional stories based on historical truths intended on guiding future people on how they live their lives (see Homer - the odyssey)

7. Do you go to church? If so, how often?
no. used to but not by choice. what an archaic institution. that being said to each his own. if you need to be part of a special club where you all follow the same rules to feel meaning in your life go for it. Personally though i'll stick with my own version. flames are my gods and the dome is my church and all you CPers are my fellow worshippers. .

[Fozzie_DeBear]

1. What are your views regarding sex outside of marriage?
No problem...

2. What are your views regarding homosexual or lesbian relationships?
THey have the same rights to being miserable as everyone else

3. Wht are your views on abortion?
It should be available, legal and rare (Bill Clinton quote)

4. Do you believe in moral absolutes (ie: that there are some things that are always right or wrong regardless of culture or religion)?
Theft (of property, dignity or life)

5. What, in your view, is the purpose of life?
To deal with Karma

6. What is your view of the Bible and what role should it play in our lives?
It is one of many books of worship which can be used to guide people to wholesome life...and justify ignorant behavior

7. Do you go to church? If so, how often?
Very rarely

[mykalberta]

Wow, those are fairly loaded questions for an ethics class.

1. What are your views regarding sex outside of marriage?

No issue with it at all. Althought people need personal responsibility for their own actions. If you get AIDS when having sex with some chick you just met, I dont feel sorry for you in the least.

2. What are your views regarding homosexual or lesbian relationships?

Its cloudy to say they least but I believe its a sin. However, people are going to do what they are going to do, so long as they dont ask me to pay for something or force me to listen to one of their rants, let them do what they do.

3. Wht are your views on abortion?

It is not a sin to have an abortion, although if I was dating a girl and found out she had an abortion, I would think twice about continuing the relationship (so long as the reasoning wasnt medical condition, rape, etc).

4. Do you believe in moral absolutes (ie: that there are some things that are always right or wrong regardless of culture or religion)?

Yes, no more is needed unless examples are asked.

5. What, in your view, is the purpose of life?

There is no purpose. We are living things that are doing what living things do: live, eat, procreate, die. I dont believe there is a heaven, I do believe there is a hell though.

6. What is your view of the Bible and what role should it play in our lives?

For me, it is a morale compass and not a road map that must be followed. I have read it enough times and I still dont understand everything. Its very difficult to understand because it was written in the context of that time, and in order to understand it, you need to learn the history which is very biased from every angle.

7. Do you go to church? If so, how often?

No, never have, never will. Church is un-needed in civilized (where people can read) society in this day and age. It was developed as the voice of the bible. Unfortunately like any organization it has veered away from its intended pupose and is now the voice of the few who pick and choose issues rather than standing firm on all issues. The pope is no closer to God (in fact he is probably farther away) than a prostitue on 17th Ave.