Speeding in Washinton State can cost you $276,000

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

A little bit more extreme but raises the question where is the 'line'. What is the point that some amount of cash or expensive merchandise is too much that it becomes fishy? and how much detailed, accurate and documented proof do you have to give that it belongs to you and all the funds for it were obtained legally (especially on the spot)?

My question would be if you just won it, wouldn't you have the documentation on you?

Like if you were pulled over after driving home from the store with a brand new TV in the trunk, you'd still have the reciept on you. Especially if you had to declare at customs, for example.

I realize the point you're getting at is where is the line? And it's a very vaild question. It's a grey area, but I'd say let's keep it within reason. Is there a reasonable expectation to have reciepts for large cash payouts on you after leaving an American Casino? I'd say, yes there is. If you can't provide that, then I'm not going to buy your story.

If you're leaving Walmart with a canoe over your head, and the police stop you in the parking lot, if you can't provide a recipt is it wrong for them to take the canoe and investigate further? I mean you just left the store.

The premise of having a television in your home, and newly aquired goods in the trunk of your car are different IMO.

[stang]

If the guy would have said "No you dont have permission to search my car" then he would probally be picking up his drugs/hookers right now!!

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by stang

He probally didnt. A lot of people dont know that (in the states anyways) when they ask if they can search the car you can say no. If they dont have any definite reason to search they cant.

http://www.flexyourrights.org/traffic_stop_scenario

I wonder how this works in Canada though... any lawyers?

Edit: Here are the video clips on what to do
http://www.flexyourrights.org/busted/movie_clips

So if we assume the police officer followed the law correctly, he more than likely asked the driver if he could search the car, and the driver said, "yes", And the reason he asked to search the car was because he thought his answers were suspicious? This seems to follow the letter of the law. Not sure about the money though, I wouldn't mind knowing more about that.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

If you're leaving Walmart with a canoe over your head, and the police stop you in the parking lot, if you can't provide a recipt is it wrong for them to take the canoe and investigate further? I mean you just left the store.

if that store reported that someone just left the store without paying for a canoe - for sure.
this is more analagous IMO (disregarding the value of the items in question) to walking down at the lake with said canoe that you just purchased. the police have no suspicion of where the canoe came from, if it was purchased legally or stolen, how long you've had the canoe, if it would be reasonable for you to have the receipts on you at that particular moment.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

well the value of the item in question really isn't in question (mind you I suppose if he had a toonie in his trunk the officer wouldn't ask any questions other than "what the fata is that?")

The way I see it if you answer straightforward questions suspiciously, and then can't back up your statements that you weren't straight forward with from the start, you have just cause to look into abmornalities further.

This doesn't have anything to do with the argument directly and isn't ample refutation, but how many people here drive around with $275,000 in the trunk of their car? (If you answered yes, what's your make, model, and plate number?)

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Why do I or anyone have to play twenty questions with a cop. This guy now has to prove he got the money ligitimately. The whole incident sounds like he is guilty until proven innocent and if we're fine with that, than watch our freedoms be slowly taken away.

The burden of proof is on the cops, not the suspect. Its likely he was speeding and was agitated when the cop stopped him suspecting drug use and did a standard search and found the cash. So that is reason enough to hold him for 72 hours because on can believe he either took place in a recent or upcoming crime.

MYK

[Maritime Q-Scout]

ok I want to be sure I understand things properly (I'm not questioning anyone's arguments, I want to be certain I'm understanding things correctly).

I'm assuming from the article that if you get a big payout in a United States casino (or even small one) you get a reciept of the winnings. I'm also assuming this is done for tax purposes.

I'm assuming that he was heading back to Canada at some point with his winnings.

I'm also assuming that he would have to declare his winnings when crossing the boarder, thus needing the proper paperwork to do so.

I'm assuming that if he didn't have the proper paperwork, or got searched for not declaring the money he'd be fata'd by the long hard dip of the law.

IF all my assumptions are true, wouldn't he just have had to show the officer his reciepts and all's well?

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

ok I want to be sure I understand things properly (I'm not questioning anyone's arguments, I want to be certain I'm understanding things correctly).

I'm assuming from the article that if you get a big payout in a United States casino (or even small one) you get a reciept of the winnings. I'm also assuming this is done for tax purposes.

I'm assuming that he was heading back to Canada at some point with his winnings.

I'm also assuming that he would have to declare his winnings when crossing the boarder, thus needing the proper paperwork to do so.

I'm assuming that if he didn't have the proper paperwork, or got searched for not declaring the money he'd be fata'd by the long hard dip of the law.

IF all my assumptions are true, wouldn't he just have had to show the officer his reciepts and all's well?

I can't say what the process is in the US, but in Canada if somebody cashes in more that $10K, there's a bunch of forms that have to be filled out, and receipts given. The reason for this is to scrutiinze for money laundering ... pimps and dealers like to use casinos to launder money. I've been the general manager at charity casinos in Calgary on two occasions, and this is one of the things our casino advisor drilled into us. I believe you even have to go through a scrutiny/papework process if depositing or withdrawing over $10K in cash from your own personal bank account ... I could be wrong about that though. Any bankers out there who can back that up, or debunk it?

At any rate, I doubt US casinos are any less vigilant about large payouts than Canadian casinos, so it doesn't wash that the guy would have a quarter million in casino winnings, but no receipts or other paper work to support it.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I can't say what the process is in the US, but in Canada if somebody cashes in more that $10K, there's a bunch of forms that have to be filled out, and receipts given. The reason for this is to scrutiinze for money laundering ... pimps and dealers like to use casinos to launder money. I've been the general manager at charity casinos in Calgary on two occasions, and this is one of the things our casino advisor drilled into us. I believe you even have to go through a scrutiny/papework process if depositing or withdrawing over $10K in cash from your own personal bank account ... I could be wrong about that though. Any bankers out there who can back that up, or debunk it?

At any rate, I doubt US casinos are any less vigilant about large payouts than Canadian casinos, so it doesn't wash that the guy would have a quarter million in casino winnings, but no receipts or other paper work to support it.

That's what I'm thinking. Even if he unwantingly consented to a search, shouldn't he have the paperwork?

But I'm also gonna ask if anyone drives around with $275k in their trunk (and as opposed to posting your car's make, model, and plate number you can just PM me )

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by stang

Yup and a judge more then likely will not give a warrant just because "He failed at 20 questions" Police do not have the power or the rights to just go through our stuff.

IIRC, in the States (and maybe even in Canada), your car can be searched if an officer believes he has probable cause to suspect something illegal is happening. In this case, I would bet the officer was suspecting there were drugs in the car.

With a cop, like anyone else, if you answer confidently, and reasonably, they will be far more likely to let you go easily. Start dodging questions, and suspicion increases.

This is not to say that this officer's actions were right or wrong, however.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I can't say what the process is in the US, but in Canada if somebody cashes in more that $10K, there's a bunch of forms that have to be filled out, and receipts given. The reason for this is to scrutiinze for money laundering ... pimps and dealers like to use casinos to launder money. I've been the general manager at charity casinos in Calgary on two occasions, and this is one of the things our casino advisor drilled into us. I believe you even have to go through a scrutiny/papework process if depositing or withdrawing over $10K in cash from your own personal bank account ... I could be wrong about that though. Any bankers out there who can back that up, or debunk it?

At any rate, I doubt US casinos are any less vigilant about large payouts than Canadian casinos, so it doesn't wash that the guy would have a quarter million in casino winnings, but no receipts or other paper work to support it.

I believe that limit is 50K at least for the US, to the best of my knowledge it used to be 100k but after 9-11 that was changed.

MYK

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

IIRC, in the States (and maybe even in Canada), your car can be searched if an officer believes he has probable cause to suspect something illegal is happening. In this case, I would bet the officer was suspecting there were drugs in the car.

With a cop, like anyone else, if you answer confidently, and reasonably, they will be far more likely to let you go easily. Start dodging questions, and suspicion increases.

This is not to say that this officer's actions were right or wrong, however.

Well, I can;t speak with regards to US caselaw but that is not the case in Canada and I suspect it is the same way in the USA.

[stang]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

IIRC, in the States (and maybe even in Canada), your car can be searched if an officer believes he has probable cause to suspect something illegal is happening. In this case, I would bet the officer was suspecting there were drugs in the car.

With a cop, like anyone else, if you answer confidently, and reasonably, they will be far more likely to let you go easily. Start dodging questions, and suspicion increases.

This is not to say that this officer's actions were right or wrong, however.

That would make warrants obsolete. Why would they ever need a warrant if they can just shake down anyone.

If he has probable cause then he has to go to a Judge and get a warrant.

Unless of course you give the police officer permission.