wikileaks.org releases classified US military video depicting killing of civilians

[peter12]

Originally Posted by driveway

Except that it shouldn't be that way. and according to the laws of the United States, ISN'T that way. The military in the US is subservient to the citizenry. This is why there is civilian oversight of the military in the form of the Secretary of Defense and the Congress.

I understand that mistakes happen when you have 150 000 people armed with the best weapons money can buy running around a country with a license to kill, but the fact that the military feels it's necessary to conceal these mistakes when they occur is indicative of a disconnect between actions of the military and the stated goal of the action in Iraq.

Again, I understand the position of the military. They've been dealing with anti-war protests and reporting for eight years, they must feel like they need to defend EVERYTHING they do and hide anything that shows them in a negative light. Unfortunately, it just makes situations like this worse.

The military is subservient to elected citizens, not radical demagogues using situations like these to further their own goals.

The last thing this should turn into is a witch hunt.

[ynwa03]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

For all they know there were weapons in that van. In any case, (from their POV) they're aiding a group believed to be insurgents. Assuming that the apache thought/knew these guys had weapons, if that unmarked van comes up and starts collecting things off the ground potentially they've grabbed weapons. They're grabbing bodies which would conceivably still have their weapons with them.

It's a very unfortunate accident and I hate to sound like I'm blaming the victim but if I'm driving around a warzone that's been that way for the better part of a decade with my kids in tow in my unmarked van and I see a helicopter open fire on a group of people, I'll be outta there so damn fast...

This sounds like something coming from a person sitting in the safety of their home in front of a well lit fire place enjoying and nice warm cup of tea.

I think you're not being very critical here. Someone can believe what they want, that doesn't necessarily make it true. And usually if you act on something that is wrong, and end up killing people because of it, the least other people can do is call you on your mistake. Instead your saying what happened was ok because the soldier 'believed' those men to be insurgents. I've watched it a few times, and it looks like one or two of the men are carrying weapons..and a few are carrying cameras. And none of them look like they are hostile. If this case is not one of over use of force, then i don't know what is.

And the second part of your post is a bit short sighted. How do you know the people in that van weren't related to some of the people who were blown up out of nowhere? If you're in your home, and someone tells you your friend/father/brother/uncle was shot down the street for no reason, would you say, "oh i should get in my car and drive the other way"??

Also, show me when the people from the van start to 'collect' things off the ground. They get out and carry the body to the van.

Let's be at least a little realistic here. I'm not saying those men are were insurgents, i'm saying there was a group of people, minding their own business, not seeming hostile who were shot up by a bunch of cowards in a helicopter who basically cheered and commentated the deaths like it was a video game and then the whole incident was covered up for 3 years.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by ynwa03

This sounds like something coming from a person sitting in the safety of their home in front of a well lit fire place enjoying and nice warm cup of tea.

And I suppose you wrote your post under a blood-stained sheet in a bombed-out Sadr City middle-school?

It doesn't matter which "side" anyone is on in this discussion -- the back-and-forth about "you just don't get what the soldiers/Iraqis are going through" is ridiculous. We are chit-chatting about this on an internet forum dedicated to a hockey team in Canada. None of us have a clue.

[ynwa03]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

And I suppose you wrote your post under a blood-stained sheet in a bombed-out Sadr City middle-school?

It doesn't matter which "side" anyone is on in this discussion -- the back-and-forth about "you just don't get what the soldiers/Iraqis are going through" is ridiculous. We are chit-chatting about this on an internet forum dedicated to a hockey team in Canada. None of us have a clue.

I was comparing the quality of life the poster is enjoying to the Iraqi's who's land was invaded. Believe it or not, that plays a major role in how some people see issues such as this.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by ynwa03

This sounds like something coming from a person sitting in the safety of their home in front of a well lit fire place enjoying and nice warm cup of tea.

I think you're not being very critical here. Someone can believe what they want, that doesn't necessarily make it true. And usually if you act on something that is wrong, and end up killing people because of it, the least other people can do is call you on your mistake. Instead your saying what happened was ok because the soldier 'believed' those men to be insurgents. I've watched it a few times, and it looks like one or two of the men are carrying weapons..and a few are carrying cameras. And none of them look like they are hostile. If this case is not one of over use of force, then i don't know what is.

And the second part of your post is a bit short sighted. How do you know the people in that van weren't related to some of the people who were blown up out of nowhere? If you're in your home, and someone tells you your friend/father/brother/uncle was shot down the street for no reason, would you say, "oh i should get in my car and drive the other way"??

Also, show me when the people from the van start to 'collect' things off the ground. They get out and carry the body to the van.

Let's be at least a little realistic here. I'm not saying those men are were insurgents, i'm saying there was a group of people, minding their own business, not seeming hostile who were shot up by a bunch of cowards in a helicopter who basically cheered and commentated the deaths like it was a video game and then the whole incident was covered up for 3 years.

Funny thing about insurgents, they look just like regular people minding their own business before they kill you.

And yes, continue on calling gunship pilots and crews cowards. What a moronic thing to say.