2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

My control group is every team to win the Stanley Cup in the cap era.

The Detroit Red Wings, who were built in a time with no salary cap and $90M teams playing $18M ones, are the only exception.

It’s not just because of the players you get at the top, but because of the supplementary selections and acquisitions you make while you’re not pushing all your chips to the table.

Drafting four top-64 players for three years in a row does a lot.

Trading Matt Duchene for the pick that becomes Bowen Byram, both for the young player, and the salary it frees up.

Keep some of your good players. Sell some that have higher value, because what this team needs is only found in the draft.

Trading for it is counterproductive unless you’re in a Vegas situation where doing so won’t cripple your franchise.

Draft it, develop it, and do this the right way.

Order of operations matters.

Hmm… ok now it sounds like it’s way more complicated than drafting once or twice in the top 5. Who could have guessed?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by getbak

Yup, for a long time, people kept saying you had to draft your starting goalie if you wanted to win the Cup because Tim Thomas was the last SC winning goalie who wasn't drafted by his team, and Osgood in 2008 was the last SC winning goalie who wasn't playing for his only NHL team.

Then, Kuemper and Hill won the last 2 Cups, so no one brings that up anymore.

My memory is dwindling with age but I think it was the Hawks that started the ‘don’t spend money on your goalie’ line of thinking. It was obviously a great theory*.


* great theory provided you had hjalmarsson and Seabrook and Keith and byfuglein. And also Kane and toews and sharp…

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Stienberg and others who are close to the team have said they will. Burke/Feaster also said they would in 2013 but the cap constraints weren’t as tight as they are today.

Talk to me when it happens. Until then it's all a pipe dream.

Also, how do you reconcile your view while also taking the fact the Flames are paying Sutter ~$4M for this year and next to not coach? A lot of people here, yourself included I believe, think Edwards hired Sutter and not Treliving. Why wouldn’t the Flames retain on their UFA’s and/or potentially a player with term (Markstrom)?

Terminations are different from retaining salary so a player can ply his trade for another team that can do damage to yours. Terminations while paying the remainder of the contract take the individual out of the mix to work for anyone other than you. Retention has you paying for someone to play/work against you. Not how the Flames or Edwards works. Is this issue too complex for you to understand? I don't understand how you conflate two very different situations and present them as the same thing?

[stemit14]

This is starting to get complicated for Conroy. And for flames fans. Most of us are ready for a rebuild but with virtually every player (outside of Ruzicka and Dube) clicking right now, Markstrom in Vezina form and rumours of the UFAs interested in extending… what does Conroy do now? Especially if they keep this up right to the TDL. What if all the UFAs re-sign for “reasonable” contracts? For example… Lindholm and Hanifin at $7 million AAV each, Tanev at $3 million AAV for two years. Would the fans be ok with that? It means no rebuild.

Keep in mind, the flames are still a long shot to make the playoffs. Too many teams are on hot streaks right now chasing down those playoff spots.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by stemit14

This is starting to get complicated for Conroy. And for flames fans. Most of us are ready for a rebuild but with virtually every player (outside of Ruzicka and Dube) clicking right now, Markstrom in Vezina form and rumours of the UFAs interested in extending… what does Conroy do now? Especially if they keep this up right to the TDL. What if all the UFAs re-sign for “reasonable” contracts? For example… Lindholm and Hanifin at $7 million AAV each, Tanev at $3 million AAV for two years. Would the fans be ok with that? It means no rebuild.

Keep in mind, the flames are still a long shot to make the playoffs. Too many teams are on hot streaks right now chasing down those playoff spots.

At the very least, other teams will probably see him as being less desperate to make trades and it could cause them to make offers Conroy would have to seriously look at.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by stemit14

This is starting to get complicated for Conroy. And for flames fans. Most of us are ready for a rebuild but with virtually every player (outside of Ruzicka and Dube) clicking right now, Markstrom in Vezina form and rumours of the UFAs interested in extending… what does Conroy do now? Especially if they keep this up right to the TDL. What if all the UFAs re-sign for “reasonable” contracts? For example… Lindholm and Hanifin at $7 million AAV each, Tanev at $3 million AAV for two years. Would the fans be ok with that? It means no rebuild.

Keep in mind, the flames are still a long shot to make the playoffs. Too many teams are on hot streaks right now chasing down those playoff spots.

Lots of time between now and March 8th to get a firmer read on the compass needle.

If the Flames lose steam, they'll be out of it in short order, as it's getting competitive now for the western WC as teams are increasing their winning percentages.

We'll also see if these role and support players can sustain their production (i.e. Coleman), and if the kids can continue buoying the team to the .600 hockey it's played since the HC.

If the Flames don't gain ground by then or find themselves in a berth along the way, then it's probably safe to say they're chasing it and you can pull the plug and trade the players you need to.

They should anyways, but if somehow this group keeps winning and forces their way into the playoff picture (not just hovering on the periphery) then maybe you look at re-signing guys like Hanifin and Tanev both because your group as it is can be competitive going forward.

(Obviously Lindholm is a must trade though)

[traptor]

Originally Posted by stemit14

This is starting to get complicated for Conroy. And for flames fans. Most of us are ready for a rebuild but with virtually every player (outside of Ruzicka and Dube) clicking right now, Markstrom in Vezina form and rumours of the UFAs interested in extending… what does Conroy do now? Especially if they keep this up right to the TDL. What if all the UFAs re-sign for “reasonable” contracts? For example… Lindholm and Hanifin at $7 million AAV each, Tanev at $3 million AAV for two years. Would the fans be ok with that? It means no rebuild.

Keep in mind, the flames are still a long shot to make the playoffs. Too many teams are on hot streaks right now chasing down those playoff spots.

I would hate this.

Teams go through downswings and upswings throughout a season.
When you look at the bigger picture, we're a middling team.

Probably around the 30th (22nd place) - 60th (13th place) percentile range on any given year.

In this range you can battle for playoff spot every year and get in sometimes. Typically draft the first round somewhere in the late teens.


To me this is the worst spot to be.
Re-signing everyone will flatline our trend line. We will likely not be moving out of this range for most of the next decade, especially considering we already have multiple vets of long term deals. We will have 5 vets signed to high priced deals for the next 5+ years and another sizeable group of vets signed for 3+ years.


We need big shakeups to adjust our trendline, either up or down, otherwise we will continue to flatline in the 30th (22nd place) - 60th (13th place) percentile range which is the land of hopelessness and insignificance.

[stemit14]

Another tough outcome of re-signing all these guys and not going for a rebuild now that so many people are ready for one is the inevitable reaction to when the team struggles in the future. A bad stretch of games and every veteran player will look like a mistake… even the ones that are playing great now. We are all loving how Markstrom and Coleman are playing now but, sooner or later, a bunch of people will be saying “should have traded them when their value was high” when these guys go through any stretch of rough games.

In the rebuild scenario… stretches where the team loses are part of the plan so there is little criticism. Even when rebuilds take a long time… I don’t think anyone would be arguing that trying to rebuild was a mistake… the criticism would be if the flames made poor draft picks or developed young guys improperly.

Rebuilds, once committed to, tend to be difficult to criticize where as trying to be a competitive team every year can very easily be criticized as every decision is measured in immediate success. Look at Chicago and San Jose right now…. they are icing terrible teams pretty much by design… they get made fun of for that but not criticized since it’s part of the rebuild plan. It only gets criticized in about 5 years if they are still bad teams (like where Ottawa and Buffalo are at).

All that said… it’s definitely easier for us, as fans, to want a rebuild than it is for a GM to commit to one when your team seems to be coming together and playing really well. There ends up being pressure from above (ownership) and below (coaches and players committed to this team for years after this) to go for it.

I’m pretty much at the point where I’ll support either direction for the flames if they keep playing like this up to the TDL and it ends up putting them in a playoff spot by then. I’ll respect Conroy for sticking to his plan of trading guys if the UFAs still won’t re-sign by the TDL. It will be exciting to have lots of picks and spots ancailable for young guys. I’ll also understand the logic if he ends up signing guys to reasonable deals past this season.

Either way, it seems like Conroy and the coaching staff are going to continue to allow young guys to play impactful roles on this team going forward… which is something that has been lacking the last few years. The veterans on the team will end up being complemented by the likes of Zary, Posposil, Pelletier, Coronato, Poirier, Klapka, Honzek etc. I think Conroy will value his first and second round picks more than Treliving ever did so I could see a string of years where Conroy builds up the prospect cupboards… even if it’s from picks that are outside the top 10 in the draft.

[Mr.Coffee]

It’s not difficult, the right answer is they need to commit to a rebuild. The owner won’t let them, so here we are.

You either choose to keep cheering for them or not.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

It’s not difficult, the right answer is they need to commit to a rebuild. The owner won’t let them, so here we are.

You either choose to keep cheering for them or not.

The team is not cooperating either by winning. If you are going to do a rebuild you have to be committed like the Sens, Blue Jackets, Sabres, Sharks are and like how the Oilers were before. You have to be bad for 7-10 years and really build up those picks.

Flames can’t rebuild and give young players a chance, despite giving 5 players their first NHL action this year, because they keep winning.

[Major Major]

It's not complicated. Win games, trade players. Conroy knows this. Not worried

[D as in David]

Take one step back, two steps forward.

[Badgers Nose]

Put the puck in deep, work the cycle down low.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Take one step back, two steps forward.

Flames have been a “one step forward, one step back” team for a long, long time.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Flames have been a “one step forward, one step back” team for a long, long time.

But we come together because opposites attract.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

and like how the Oilers were before. You have to be bad for 7-10 years and really build up those picks.

The Oilers were not trying to rebuild. They were exceptionally incompetent. They'd still be stuck in the scheite if they did not luck their way to McDavid.

I don't think the Sens were fully committed either. Trading good picks for Chychryn and DeBrincant before the team had become a playoff team has set them back.

I agree that a scorched Earth rebuild is 8 years if not more. But you need some luck to land the right top player. If Tampa ends up with Bogosian and Matt Duchene instead of Hedman and Stamkos, do they still win two Stanley Cups?

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

The Oilers were not trying to rebuild. They were exceptionally incompetent. They'd still be stuck in the scheite if they did not luck their way to McDavid.

I don't think the Sens were fully committed either. Trading good picks for Chychryn and DeBrincant before the team had become a playoff team has set them back.

I agree that a scorched Earth rebuild is 8 years if not more. But you need some luck to land the right top player. If Tampa ends up with Bogosian and Matt Duchene instead of Hedman and Stamkos, do they still win two Stanley Cups?

This is a good point. We can look at how virtually every team that has won cups in the last 30 years has picked in the top five of the draft but you could also point out just any many cases where teams have picked in the top five of the draft and not won any cups.

All we can say is the obvious… the cup winning teams drafted/acquired the right players at the right time. Some of that is luck (lotteries) and some of that is good scouting. Tampa especially has been really good at both professional and amateur scouting during the last 15 years. They found guys like Kucherov, Killorn, Coleman, Goodrow, Pallat, etc. that were really good players for them. Oddly enough, their first round picks over that time have not been too amazing. It’s their late picks they been really good.

[butterfly]

I don’t think anybody is making fun of Chicago and San Jose because nobody expected them to be good. Where you can be critical of them is the Jones signing (just weird), and Hertl too. Sharks also should have got way more on the Burns trade.

[1qqaaz]

The Blackhawks in particular are going to start looking pretty promising if they pick top 3 this year. Guys like Celebrini, Bedard, and Korchinski would be great to build around.

However, people are making fun of Buffalo and Ottawa. They're overdue.

I think Buffalo, in particular, has too many similar forward prospects and not even NHL forward depth, defense, or goaltending. At some point, they have to end their rebuild and actually trade some of their surplus for on-ice help. Benson, Quinn, and Savoie are good prospect, but Buffao has too much of this type of asset.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Talk to me when it happens. Until then it's all a pipe dream.

The until it happens part I agree with.

The pipedream stuff I don't. A fan wishing for something is a pipe dream potentially.

Something that has been hinted by multiple media sources, and referred to by the acting general manager isn't a pipe dream.

Doesn't mean it is 100% going to happen. In fact it not happening isn't 100% proof that it couldn't have happened.

But it's certainly well more than a pipe dream.