2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

His career flourishing has almost nothing to do with the flames. I think many clubs would have given him a fair shake at the NHL last season given all that was going on. To not make room for him after two seasons of strong AHL performance and in light of our own NHL goalies respective performances is disrespectful at minimum.

Loyalty is earned, we have done nothing to encourage loyalty in Wolf. We haven't paid him big bucks, played him in favorable situations, or even showed him how his surreal performance in lower leagues will pay out in career trajectory. IMO it could be thought of by the player that the flames are purposely holding him back to extort better contract value out of him by the time they do need to re-sign him.

I reject (as always) your obtuse position TOfan. There's no reason for wolf to be loyal to the flames, that's the entire point of my argument. We've not given him reasons to trust us, and have given him reasons not to trust us. Not giving him an NHL spot is another reason not to trust us. I think it's becoming too many reasons.

Good stuff man, real good.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The obtuse position here is to assume that Wolf isn't going to sign with the Flames if he doesn't get 20+ games this year. This incessant negativity is just exhausting

And a little blow-hardy.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

His career flourishing has almost nothing to do with the flames. I think many clubs would have given him a fair shake at the NHL last season given all that was going on. To not make room for him after two seasons of strong AHL performance and in light of our own NHL goalies respective performances is disrespectful at minimum.

Loyalty is earned, we have done nothing to encourage loyalty in Wolf. We haven't paid him big bucks, played him in favorable situations, or even showed him how his surreal performance in lower leagues will pay out in career trajectory. IMO it could be thought of by the player that the flames are purposely holding him back to extort better contract value out of him by the time they do need to re-sign him.

I reject (as always) your obtuse position TOfan. There's no reason for wolf to be loyal to the flames, that's the entire point of my argument. We've not given him reasons to trust us, and have given him reasons not to trust us. Not giving him an NHL spot is another reason not to trust us. I think it's becoming too many reasons.

Lol yup. The Flames are holding him back when they think he will make the team better to save a few dollars on his next contract. The much simpler explanation is that they want him playing full time in the AHL or to supplant Vladar as the back up. See if he can do it in camp.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I don't think there's a failure to grasp anything at all. Wolf has dominated every stage of his development. There's no reason to believe he won't out perform Vladar at camp. In fact I would argue their respective data sets would favor Wolf by a fair margin in term of NHL readiness. Even from an imperical point of view, Wolf is ready.

I agree he is probably ready to move up and should be given a chance. But I just think everyone needs to temper their expectations of a guy who's never faced elite NHL shooters.

I also think people underestimate Vladar (and Markstrom) via recency bias.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree he is probably ready to move up and should be given a chance. But I just think everyone needs to temper their expectations of a guy who's never faced elite NHL shooters.

I also think people underestimate Vladar (and Markstrom) via recency bias.

I think that's true to some extent about Marky, but Vladar has never proven to be anything other than a competent back up.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree he is probably ready to move up and should be given a chance. But I just think everyone needs to temper their expectations of a guy who's never faced elite NHL shooters.

I also think people underestimate Vladar (and Markstrom) via recency bias.

I don't know about under estimating. Vladar is fine if not inconsistent. And last season was a myriad of blunders from every part of the team so it's hard to properly gauge any individual performance.

My perspective is built on a few things:

1. Which goaltender has the best chance of owning the net for the next decade of the 3 at the the top of the depth chart? Answer for me is Wolf.

2. Given salary cap constraints, which goaltender is the most expendable given the current situation? Answer for me is Vladar. That solves an immediate organizational issue with little to no risk as Markstrom will still get the majority of starts and Wolf has plenty of time to work on his game. And say Wolf cannot work in a pinch the Flames still have Dansk in the wing to spot fill #2 duties.

3. There's literally been no goaltender in the Flames system since...Vernon? Who has consistently obliterated every obstacle put in front of him on his March to the big show, none. That in of itself deserves merit based promotion and IMO a little more belief from the fan base of said prospect. His performance IMO is akin to players like Kaprizov who so vastly out performed on the farm they had no choice but to give him a roster spot.

4. If anyone does not believe Wolf hasn't earned his way to where he is right now, they're dead wrong. This isn't some over zealous belief that Wolf should be handed the #1 role and walk everyone else off the ice, it's just the belief that the next natural step to his progression to being the true goaltender of the Flames future lies at having the #2 spot.

Wolf makes a good young goaltender like Vladar expendable. No way around it.

We will see how training camp unfolds but I've never been so certain of any one player earning a roster spot than Wolf. He has 100 percent earned it. Throw caution to the wind on this player, let it ride. The dude has all of the right momentum going his way, all the while crashing through every other obstacle put in his way.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Right but explain the downside to me in:
- Wolf getting starter duties in the AHL to max playing time
- While getting called up to get NHL starts. 20-25 for this year
- Vladar is the back-up but can be traded once value can be extracted. At that point Wolf assumes the full time back-up role.

I see Wolf being up and down between the AHL and NHL for a portion of the year, but at some point staying up full time and Vladar is dealt.


Isn't that the ideal scenario?
Why does this have to be fully solved at the start of the season?

[Badgers Nose]

The three goalie situation as I see it: We either get a really good Vladar pushed by Wolf that we can trade at peak value, or we get a really good Wolf that makes Vladar expendable for whatever we can get for him.

Other possibilities are much less likely.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Right but explain the downside to me in:
- Wolf getting starter duties in the AHL to max playing time
- While getting called up to get NHL starts. 20-25 for this year
- Vladar is the back-up but can be traded once value can be extracted. At that point Wolf assumes the full time back-up role.

I see Wolf being up and down between the AHL and NHL for a portion of the year, but at some point staying up full time and Vladar is dealt.


Isn't that the ideal scenario?
Why does this have to be fully solved at the start of the season?

The only issue would be if the AHL team was based somewhere else. The current set up is so great, you aren’t even asking the guy to travel. He basically has the opportunity to be a starter all year, between leagues… I don’t see a downside at this point in his development. He probably won’t play in the AHL ever again after this season if everything keeps progressing how it has. It’s all great news.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Right but explain the downside to me in:
- Wolf getting starter duties in the AHL to max playing time
- While getting called up to get NHL starts. 20-25 for this year
- Vladar is the back-up but can be traded once value can be extracted. At that point Wolf assumes the full time back-up role.

I see Wolf being up and down between the AHL and NHL for a portion of the year, but at some point staying up full time and Vladar is dealt.


Isn't that the ideal scenario?
Why does this have to be fully solved at the start of the season?

It's doesn't have to be fully solved. I'm saying that I believe Wolf won't give them the option based on performance. And either way, he's the defacto #2 this season even if the pragmatic approach you posted is the way it unfolds.

And I dont know about extacting value here. Flames paid what a 3rd for Vladar? We don't need a haul to move him and some team is gonna need a goalie before season starts.

[1_Flames_Fan]

Apparently the Avalanche are shopping for a goalie. Vladar for Makar? their names rhyme...has to happen now or it doesn't make sense.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They drafted him
They signed him
They are developing him
And so far all that seems to be going swimmingly.
He's not behind in terms of when most goalies start to get NHL time.

I sometimes wonder why some of you cheer for a team that you seem to have such a clear dislike for.

We did draft him- I am not convinced he owes us anything for that. I think this is a common feeling among players these days. See: Fox, Adam
They would have been stupid not to sign him.
They are leaving him potentially for a third straight season in a league he's too good for.
It is going swimmingly for some? I guess? I think Wolf might see it differently.
He's not most goalies.

Also- I loathe when you take this cut. C'mon, I've been here more than long enough for you to know that I am fan of this team. That's malarkey, and it's dismissive and disingenuous. I am a passionate fan of this team, and I am willing to call out when I think they're making a mistake. In this case it's a mistake they're prone to making sometimes... I don't want to see the mistake made here and am calling out why.
Yes we think eachother are jerks but no need to go for the fan knees. Grab a snickers and unbunch the panties.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

The only issue would be if the AHL team was based somewhere else. The current set up is so great, you aren’t even asking the guy to travel. He basically has the opportunity to be a starter all year, between leagues… I don’t see a downside at this point in his development. He probably won’t play in the AHL ever again after this season if everything keeps progressing how it has. It’s all great news.

Totally. It's a unique situation that they can leverage to maximize value for their players, and his development.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

We did draft him- I am not convinced he owes us anything for that. I think this is a common feeling among players these days. See: Fox, Adam
They would have been stupid not to sign him.
They are leaving him potentially for a third straight season in a league he's too good for.
It is going swimmingly for some? I guess? I think Wolf might see it differently.
He's not most goalies.

Also- I loathe when you take this cut. C'mon, I've been here more than long enough for you to know that I am fan of this team. That's malarkey, and it's dismissive and disingenuous. I am a passionate fan of this team, and I am willing to call out when I think they're making a mistake. In this case it's a mistake they're prone to making sometimes... I don't want to see the mistake made here and am calling out why.
Yes we think eachother are jerks but no need to go for the fan knees. Grab a snickers and unbunch the panties.

Present the evidence that Wolf is unhappy or that for some reason the Flames are screwing this up.

What information suggests they are making a mistake.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

Apparently the Avalanche are shopping for a goalie. Vladar for Makar? their names rhyme...has to happen now or it doesn't make sense.

Start macar!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

We did draft him- I am not convinced he owes us anything for that. I think this is a common feeling among players these days. See: Fox, Adam
They would have been stupid not to sign him.
They are leaving him potentially for a third straight season in a league he's too good for.
It is going swimmingly for some? I guess? I think Wolf might see it differently.
He's not most goalies.

Also- I loathe when you take this cut. C'mon, I've been here more than long enough for you to know that I am fan of this team. That's malarkey, and it's dismissive and disingenuous. I am a passionate fan of this team, and I am willing to call out when I think they're making a mistake. In this case it's a mistake they're prone to making sometimes... I don't want to see the mistake made here and am calling out why.
Yes we think eachother are jerks but no need to go for the fan knees. Grab a snickers and unbunch the panties.

How so?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Wolf will get starts this year in the NHL. That's the plan, regardless of what happens with Vladar and Markstrom.



Conroy is not going to sell Vladar for pennies on the dollar now. Why would he? Imagine doing that, and then having Wolf falter a little, and given his age and experience, you never know. It is better to have something in place ready in case he falters.



Now, if he excels and is doing a better job than the other goalies, then it certainly makes it easier to sell Vladar for pennies on the dollar. Or if Markstrom is doing well and teams inquire about him, Conroy can then make that move as well if necessary. I would be very surprised to find out that Wolf is some primadonna who is stamping his feet demanding to be the starter or the backup, 'or else!'. After listening to his interview, he has a good relationship with the other two goalies, and everyone is just in this together.



At the end of the day, he knows that he is firmly in control of his situation. Play well enough consistently enough, and the team will act accordingly.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Wolf will get starts this year in the NHL. That's the plan, regardless of what happens with Vladar and Markstrom.



Conroy is not going to sell Vladar for pennies on the dollar now. Why would he? Imagine doing that, and then having Wolf falter a little, and given his age and experience, you never know. It is better to have something in place ready in case he falters.



Now, if he excels and is doing a better job than the other goalies, then it certainly makes it easier to sell Vladar for pennies on the dollar. Or if Markstrom is doing well and teams inquire about him, Conroy can then make that move as well if necessary. I would be very surprised to find out that Wolf is some primadonna who is stamping his feet demanding to be the starter or the backup, 'or else!'. After listening to his interview, he has a good relationship with the other two goalies, and everyone is just in this together.



At the end of the day, he knows that he is firmly in control of his situation. Play well enough consistently enough, and the team will act accordingly.

It's almost like Conroy is in charge of an entire franchise, not just one particular goalie.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Right but explain the downside to me in:
- Wolf getting starter duties in the AHL to max playing time
- While getting called up to get NHL starts. 20-25 for this year
- Vladar is the back-up but can be traded once value can be extracted. At that point Wolf assumes the full time back-up role.

I see Wolf being up and down between the AHL and NHL for a portion of the year, but at some point staying up full time and Vladar is dealt.


Isn't that the ideal scenario?
Why does this have to be fully solved at the start of the season?

There’s already goaltending issues arising. I saw somewhere that Francouz is likely injured for longer than anticipated. Wouldn’t mind if the Flames took him on and got a 2nd or something for Vladar. Francouz is very injury prone so any time he is injured wolf is called up.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

There’s already goaltending issues arising. I saw somewhere that Francouz is likely injured for longer than anticipated. Wouldn’t mind if the Flames took him on and got a 2nd or something for Vladar. Francouz is very injury prone so any time he is injured wolf is called up.

No thanks to bringing back another goalie even if he's injury prone. That doesn't really solve the problem. When you move on from Vladar it's to open a spot for Wolf to come up permanently. If a non-draft pick is involved it should be a player.