2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think a top four defenseman missing the whole season counts as an injury.

Tanev missed 17 games (almost 20% of the season)

Huberdeau missed 3

Andersson got hit by a car.

So only 23 man games lost to injuries from key players.
Even including Kylington, the Flames were quite fortunate.

Mangameslost.com has the Flames at 105 man games lost in total. Only the New York Rangers were healthier.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

The Flames finished 16th last year, in a year when everything went wrong. So your assuming with everything going right, they'll to battle extra hard to get where they were last year?

Not everything went wrong. Some players had career years production wise (Backlund, Coleman, Dube, Toffoli, Zadorov). You can't count on that sort of thing every season. In order to improve, players who had down years will need to step up, but other players will have to maintain their production, or others will have to step up as well.

I wouldn't say I am pessimistic, but I am unconvinced because there are just too many question marks.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

So only 23 man games lost to injuries from key players.
Even including Kylington, the Flames were quite fortunate.

Mangameslost.com has the Flames at 105 man games lost in total. Only the New York Rangers were healthier.

Injuries can be both a curse and a blessing..

A Markstrom injury likely has the team in a playoff spot.

Ruzicka led this team in scoring for an entire month due to the Huberdeau injury and then never received another shot in the top nine due to the Vets being healthy..

People don't like to hear it but we were better off without Lucic and Lewis in the line up, and the rookies in.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Chonger

I dont believe in Huberdeau at all. And Markstrom even less. they haven't earned my blind faith. Not personally loosing us games all year would be an improvement. They were unwatchable!
I'm not gonna wish with this team. They are what they are to me until they prove different! I just hope I can watch a game next season without falling asleep or changing the channel.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

This is exactly it. People have just given up on the team after 1 year of disaster Sutter hockey. Last year we not only had a bizarrely out of date and inflexible coach, but many of the players actively gave up on Sutter.

The truth is we don't know what we actually have with Huberdeau and many posters aren't willing to give him any benefit of the doubt.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

So only 23 man games lost to injuries from key players.
Even including Kylington, the Flames were quite fortunate.

Mangameslost.com has the Flames at 105 man games lost in total. Only the New York Rangers were healthier.

That doesn’t count the 82 games Kylington lost.

Last year going into the season we thought we had replaced:

Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Gudbransen with Huberdeau, Kadri Weegar. A big part of the roster upgrade was on the blueline replacing a bottom pair guy in Gudbransen for a top pair guy in Weegar.

What we had was

Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Kylington, Gudbransen for Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, Stone

While Weegar is by far the best D in that group Stone was easily the worst so the D is more of a wash. Kylington being gone is the equivalent of 82 man games lost where do the Flames rank in injuries when that is factored in? Seems to be difficult to find an accurate list when searching online.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Not everything went wrong. Some players had career years production wise (Backlund, Coleman, Dube, Toffoli, Zadorov). You can't count on that sort of thing every season. In order to improve, players who had down years will need to step up, but other players will have to maintain their production, or others will have to step up as well.

I wouldn't say I am pessimistic, but I am unconvinced because there are just too many question marks.

Players like Coleman and Toffoli having career years were the result of the Sutter system. What's the net points lost vs gained from the Sutter system? The fact only guys with a jam it into the net style of play were succeeding is not a positive. That only speaks to how absolutely stifling the system was.

I don't count Dube in there as he's an example of a young guy on the rise. If anything, he was held down by the Sutter system. He's one of many young players who I expect to surprise this year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blankall

Players like Coleman and Toffoli having career years were the result of the Sutter system. What's the net points lost vs gained from the Sutter system? The fact only guys with a jam it into the net style of play were succeeding is not a positive. That only speaks to how absolutely stifling the system was.

I don't count Dube in there as he's an example of a young guy on the rise. If anything, he was held down by the Sutter system. He's one of many young players who I expect to surprise this year.

I wouldn't describe Toffoli as "jam it in". But he did benefit from more ice time, playing top line and being the focus on the powerplay. If he plays RW top line in NJ with Bratt and Hughes he will score as much. If they use Mercer there and play Toffoli with Hischier and Meier maybe not so much. If they decide he will play on a veteran line with Palat and Haula, he will nosedive.

As for Coleman, yeah 38 points was a high but not by much - he's always in the 30s. PPG wise, it was way off his last year in in fact. 31 points in 55 games. A 46 point pace.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I wouldn't describe Toffoli as "jam it in". But he did benefit from more ice time, playing top line and being the focus on the powerplay. If he plays RW top line in NJ with Bratt and Hughes he will score as much. If they use Mercer there and play Toffoli with Hischier and Meier maybe not so much. If they decide he will play on a veteran line with Palat and Haula, he will nosedive.

As for Coleman, yeah 38 points was a high but not by much - he's always in the 30s. PPG wise, it was way off his last year in in fact. 31 points in 55 games. A 46 point pace.

Toffoli did two things really well. He was great at picking up pucks around the net and putting them towards the net. He was great at shooting on the rush. Neither of those skills requires especially great creative talents. Great for a Sutter system, where goals are almost always acquired by slowing the game down and rebounding and collecting shots from the perimeter or waiting for the other team to give up a rush the opposite way.

[Goriders]

I think we’ll know what the Flames are after the first 10 games. Everyone has been quick to blame everything on Sutter. We will soon see if that was in fact the case. Players never seem to take any of the blame these days.

If I’m Conroy I hold the players accountable this year. Start parting out underperformers and rolling younger players into the lineup. Merit not contract size gets you playing time.

Markstrom, Mangiapane, Huberdeau ect. Not sure how you move any of them though.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Chonger

I dont believe in Huberdeau at all. And Markstrom even less. they haven't earned my blind faith. Not personally loosing us games all year would be an improvement. They were unwatchable!
I'm not gonna wish with this team. They are what they are to me until they prove different! I just hope I can watch a game next season without falling asleep or changing the channel.

So being a Vezina runner up didn't impress you at all?

You may need to adjust your expectation level!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

So only 23 man games lost to injuries from key players.
Even including Kylington, the Flames were quite fortunate.

Mangameslost.com has the Flames at 105 man games lost in total. Only the New York Rangers were healthier.

What if you add +82?

Looks to me like it puts them roughly in the middle

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So being a Vezina runner up didn't impress you at all?

You may need to adjust your expectation level!

The problem with Markstrom is he has one good year, one bad year and then one ok year. He is just not a consistent #1 goalie. It was the same in Vancouver and the fans here laughed hard at the 6 year deal. We will be lucky to get 2 good tears out of the contract.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Injuries can be both a curse and a blessing..

A Markstrom injury likely has the team in a playoff spot.

Ruzicka led this team in scoring for an entire month due to the Huberdeau injury and then never received another shot in the top nine due to the Vets being healthy..

People don't like to hear it but we were better off without Lucic and Lewis in the line up, and the rookies in.

Agree. I still believe that if Wolf was called up January, the Flames would have made the playoffs.

Also agree that some of the "losses" this offseason ill be addition by subtraction. The Flames need energy. I just hope they don't lose too much size and toughness.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

The problem with Markstrom is he has one good year, one bad year and then one ok year. He is just not a consistent #1 goalie. It was the same in Vancouver and the fans here laughed hard at the 6 year deal. We will be lucky to get 2 good tears out of the contract.

Only 2 tears? Many more have been cried already I believe.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

The problem with Markstrom is he has one good year, one bad year and then one ok year. He is just not a consistent #1 goalie. It was the same in Vancouver and the fans here laughed hard at the 6 year deal. We will be lucky to get 2 good tears out of the contract.

Well by your analysis I think a good year and then an average one must be up next!

[FlamesAddiction]

Man games lost to injury can be misleading if the coach is forcing or guilting players into playing through injuries that they should be sitting for. Or if the players themselves are forcing themselves to play through. I suspect some players were playing through injuries at points in the season when they shouldn't have, likely due to Sutter's lack of faith in, or resistance to play younger players. The number, like most stats, tells you what happened, but not why it happened. It can also be a factor of players not playing hard on a regular basis, although I don't think that was a major issue with the Flames last season.

Teams with great depth can afford to rest players, same with teams that have cushion in the standings.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by blankall

This is exactly it. People have just given up on the team after 1 year of disaster Sutter hockey. Last year we not only had a bizarrely out of date and inflexible coach, but many of the players actively gave up on Sutter.

The truth is we don't know what we actually have with Huberdeau and many posters aren't willing to give him any benefit of the doubt.

I think most of us expect a bounce back in production (could it really be any worse?). But what we didn't see even a glimpse of last season was some level of a player that could take over games, set the tone, come up with the big clutch play. A guy who is worthy of the richest contract in the team's history. Even in seasons where they struggle, very good players at least have a few stretches where they look great. Huberdeau was almost entirely irrelevant last season. Some of that is certainly on Sutter, but some of it is on Huberdeau as well. We can only hope there's a dominant beast of a player there somewhere, but he has to show it.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So being a Vezina runner up didn't impress you at all?

You may need to adjust your expectation level!

The most impressive part was how badly he **** the bed. That was the worst year of all.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blankall

Toffoli did two things really well. He was great at picking up pucks around the net and putting them towards the net. He was great at shooting on the rush. Neither of those skills requires especially great creative talents. Great for a Sutter system, where goals are almost always acquired by slowing the game down and rebounding and collecting shots from the perimeter or waiting for the other team to give up a rush the opposite way.

Oh, he's limited all right, a lot having to do with footspeed. I'm just saying he wasn't a net crasher and also that, depending on linemates, his production may stay the same or it will drop. He's not a star on his own.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Well by your analysis I think a good year and then an average one must be up next!

Lol.. I suppose so!