[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[kipperiggy]

CP: Why did we re-sign Huberdeau and Weegar so fast!
Also CP: Why didn't we re-sign Gaudreau faster?

[Madman]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

CP: Why did we re-sign Huberdeau and Weegar so fast!
Also CP: Why didn't we re-sign Gaudreau faster?

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

The goal of the NHL is not ‘fun’. It’s not to ‘entertain’ the fan base.

It’s to win the Stanley Cup.

I’m genuinely a Johnny and Tkachuk fan …but I’m confident that they proved NOT to be the core pieces of a Stanley Cup winning team here.

I don’t don’t know that the current team is a contender …but I definitely saw recurring evidence that the previous iteration was not.

For that reason alone …I’m not overly upset that they left.

Wait, what? Lol, you have it completely opposite. The whole goal of the NHL is to entertain and make it fun for the fanbase, so they can make money off the fans. Having a tangible trophy at the end is meant to add to the experience so fans can get more invested in the team and ultimately spend more money on the NHL product.

[dissentowner]

Jesus, can this thread just die already? This is starting to be like that guy who won't shut up about his ex that did him wrong.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Disagree completely again. We picked up a likely top pairing D-man that was going to take some time to adjust to a new system. There absolutely was urgency to sign him before the season starts.

If he doesn't sign then he doesn't negotiate during the season and he goes to UFA. This was a great value signing for a premium position and he was most likely gone if we waited to see what we had in him, which was an even bigger threat than having to pay him more after the season ends.

The Weegar signing is fantastic was needed no matter what way you slice it.

Well, to be a contrarian, I can slice it a few different ways.

1. Don't sign him in the off-season, run the risk of him playing well to a big UFA payday, and if the team record is fringe playoff contention then you consider recouping at least a 1st round pick at the trade deadline to only add to the asset haul from the original trade.

2. Don't sign him, he plays well, and is essentially a rental to help you take a run in the playoffs, deal with his contract in the off-season and live with the consequences. Cap room is still a massive asset.

3. Don't sign him, assess if his style suits the system we play and new conference, and if it takes some time for him to adjust and his production falls, you have more leverage to extend him OR you let him try his hand at UFA, freeing you up a bunch of salary to address other needs.

It's ok to question the cap management and the larger forces at play that influenced him being signed when he did. It's hard to ignore the optics of the two franchise players wanting out and that massively affecting Treliving and ownership's need to repair the damage by demonstrating to Calgary and the league as a whole that two desirable, pending UFAs would re-up here. I think we can all agree that played a major part in this.

Fresh off the signings, even factoring in their adjustment window, I believe an early learning would be more patience in such a franchise-altering move before commiting this level of term and $.

[Jiri Hrdina]

The best chance to sign both was probably in the off-season. If you let the season start, then increasingly there is little benefit for them to not test UFA waters.
Both players, seemingly felt a little jilted by their former team, and were open to a team expressing confidence in wanting them long-term.

So yes the Flames could have done all that, but it takes on a massive risk that both walk as UFAs.

[Cycling76er]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Jesus, can this thread just die already? This is starting to be like that guy who won't shut up about his ex that did him wrong.

iF yOu Don'T likE the THreAD Why Do you Go IntO It!?!?!?! LoLOlOlOlOLoOL




Irks me that this ancient forum software has no thread mute capabilities or proper member blocking.

Coming from some amazing online forums that use Discourse, vBulletin is a lumbering old dinosaur.

[Bonded]

Lol could you imagine this place if the Flames made it into the second round and then Huberdeau and Weegar walked. It’d be nuts

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The best chance to sign both was probably in the off-season. If you let the season start, then increasingly there is little benefit for them to not test UFA waters.
Both players, seemingly felt a little jilted by their former team, and were open to a team expressing confidence in wanting them long-term.

So yes the Flames could have done all that, but it takes on a massive risk that both walk as UFAs.

Agreed on both. I’m speaking on Weegar specifically, who lacked the track record where I’d have rushed to sign him and instead try to get a longer look.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Agreed on both. I’m speaking on Weegar specifically, who lacked the track record where I’d have rushed to sign him and instead try to get a longer look.

Interesting. I have the opposite view - that the Weegar contract has minimal risk. He's a quality dman, and the only question is he top pairing or middle pairing. But if you are overpaying him, it's probably only by a little through the life of the contract.

Whereas the Huberdeau contract has the potential to hurt you a lot more if you are wrong.

I viewed the Weegar deal as more of a no brainer.

[Iginla]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Based on what I heard in the podcast, he was very willing to sign. He even came out and said that if Treliving and the organization was happy with him, then he’d be willing to re-sign. Then his agent even re-iterated when asked, that Johnny was telling the truth.

Johnny doesn’t even strike me as the greedy type, he actually turned down millions this past offseason. I really don’t think that his ask, was all that unreasonable. I bet it was probably pretty fair.

Treliving on the other hand, is as tough of a negotiator as it gets. It’s been proven time and time again. It wouldn’t surprise me ever to hear that Treliving low balled someone.

A fair bit of speculation and I think we can all agree that Gaudreau's word isn't exactly great.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Not sure what doesn't make sense. Having players at a premium pay grade with reduced roles isn't a good use of cap, and limits other spots you can improve your roster.

The Flames paid Weegar - what I'd argue is UFA market rate for his productivity - because he's a good 2-way defenseman. If he's not seeing PP time or put in offensive situations, his value is reduced in comparison with his salary.

There are 8 years for him to be utilized in ways that you might xeem appropriate. How.he is currently being utilized has no bearing on whether or.not it was a good signing.

It was, because he is a good defenseman.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Interesting. I have the opposite view - that the Weegar contract has minimal risk. He's a quality dman, and the only question is he top pairing or middle pairing. But if you are overpaying him, it's probably only by a little through the life of the contract.

Whereas the Huberdeau contract has the potential to hurt you a lot more if you are wrong.

I viewed the Weegar deal as more of a no brainer.

The Weegar deal will look better as time goes on for sure. Even if he's only a 35 point guy here on average.

Huberdeau is a tough one. He has looked so terribly out of place at times that it makes me wonder how he was ever a 90-115 point player. Then he has spurts where he shows his crazy skill set and you realize that it's all there under the hood.

If he eventually settles in as a 80 point guy, it isn't going to be a big deal, but if he's a lot less than that on average, the Flames are going to have a hard time with that contract in a few seasons. Another 6-7 EV points so far out of him would possibly have the Flames with 2-3 more wins with how tight a number of their losses have been.

You really have to hope he's figuring it out sooner than later.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by Cycling76er

iF yOu Don'T likE the THreAD Why Do you Go IntO It!?!?!?! LoLOlOlOlOLoOL




Irks me that this ancient forum software has no thread mute capabilities or proper member blocking.

Coming from some amazing online forums that use Discourse, vBulletin is a lumbering old dinosaur.

Bingo needs to do a fundraising run to upgrade the version of this board. Super dated.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Bingo needs to do a fundraising run to upgrade the version of this board. Super dated.

People still use Redditt which is utter crap compared to here.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Cycling76er

iF yOu Don'T likE the THreAD Why Do you Go IntO It!?!?!?! LoLOlOlOlOLoOL




Irks me that this ancient forum software has no thread mute capabilities or proper member blocking.

Coming from some amazing online forums that use Discourse, vBulletin is a lumbering old dinosaur.

Vb 5, hell even 4, are quite nice and have lots of plugins and features that could do that and more. We're just still back in '04 with Vb 3

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Sandman

We're only a few months into the "Huberdeau Era", and a whole lot more patience is needed by some fans. Our core was ripped out, and a new one has been plugged in-those new players are learning a new, more detailed system under a new, tougher coach, in a new city with a different climate. It's gonna take 30-40 games before we see what this team is capable of. Huby is coming off one of the best seasons for a LW in the history of the game, that he put up with 2 vastly inferior linemates, and he's just starting to get going.

Gaudreau wasn't worth NEAR 10 mil/yr in the summer of 2021, and I don't think he's really worth that now. Tre would've been run out of town if he had offered him that contract at that time.

Who said Gaudreau was even looking for $10M at the time? Even he and his agent knew they were coming off down seasons. I'm sure the $8.5M or $9M that's floating out there is closer to the actual number.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It isn't like Weegar and Huberdeau are some unknown commodities. Just because they were new to you, doesn't mean they were new to the organization - the staff know what they got, and what they signed. Only a fan who is unfamiliar with players on other teams would suggest that they need to wait before signing them.

And you have made this silly claim about Huberdeau not fitting into Sutter's system. Of course he can - it isn't like Sutter is playing some completely different game, it's still hockey. And Huberdeau is an elite player. Yes, there is some adjustment needed. But suggesting he can't play for Sutter is ridiculous.

They're unknown quantities on this team/system though and that's important to note, because Treliving didn't need to sign them right away, he had a whole season to see how they would fit and produce before a contract needed to be completed. Did the James Neal and Troy Brouwer signings not teach everyone here a lesson? Just because those players worked out well elsewhere, doesn't mean it'll be the same here.

Well if it's still hockey, why is it taking Huberdeau so long to figure it out? He's basically played with every center on the team and chemistry still eludes him. Not every player works out in Darryl's system, there's certain players who excel and there are certain players who don't, it's been like that every where Darryl goes and offensive players tend to be affected the most.

I guess we can wait for another 20 games like some are suggesting, but growth is generally linear and on a shift by shift basis, I haven't seen much in terms of progression up to date. His overall effectiveness is similar to what it was from the start of the season. Sure, we've seen more engagement from him and more buy in, but in my opinion, still one of the worst checkers on the team and still too soft.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

That couldn't get out of the second round.

That's not the fault of just them though. That line was the biggest reason why the team won their division with ease and scored the series clinching goal in game 7. They only had one full season together, if this organization had figured it out a little earlier then who knows how many more series wins the team could've had from 2018 onwards.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Interesting. I have the opposite view - that the Weegar contract has minimal risk. He's a quality dman, and the only question is he top pairing or middle pairing. But if you are overpaying him, it's probably only by a little through the life of the contract.

Whereas the Huberdeau contract has the potential to hurt you a lot more if you are wrong.

I viewed the Weegar deal as more of a no brainer.

Yep, I was in a similar boat. I really liked what I saw from Weegar in Florida, very noticeable, he can walk the line really well and can jump into the rush. There's definitely some untapped offensive potential there that we haven't seen yet.

Huberdeau though, scared me big time. Wasn't enamored with his style of play, was completely underwhelmed with what I saw. It took a special season from the top line to produce 100+ points which I believe was the first time since 1994 since Sutter had a 100 point player. I would've bet a lot of money that Huberdeau wouldn't have come close to 100 points under Sutter and that's looking very likely.

Like I've said before though, I'm sure he'll start producing more. He's not going to end up a 50 point guy, but even at 70-80-ish points and the style of game he plays, that contract still has a chance to look real ugly going forward.