Craig's List 2014 Prospects - Page 21 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

PeteMoss · 01-10-2014, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Craig Button thinks Buffalo has nothing in their system at centre ice as good as Reinhart. So clearly he thinks Reinhart is a step up from Grigorenko and Girgensons

Similarly he also thinks Ekblad is a step up from guys like Myers, Zadorov and Ristolainen.

I read in the local paper here when Zadorov was returned to London that the Hunters thought he could turn into a guy like Ekblad if he stepped his game up. Considering Ekblad is younger and being compared to a first round pick who stuck in the NHL for a while... its pretty high praise.

Vulcan · 01-11-2014, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bingo

I agree ... I think a lot of the pre season talk about moving their first overall pick this year was based on the team moving up the standings and that pick being 12th or 16th overall, not 2nd.

Since they went backwards I doubt that pick is in play.

We should have unloaded, I mean traded Stempniak for their pick last summer.

Red John · 01-11-2014, 02:33 AM

Great analysis, guys! Love this stuff.

One thing to add - point production for defensemen (and therefore perceived value) is more subject to the system they play in, than forwards.

Jay Bouwmeester should be exhibit A to Flames fans. Viewed as a colossal failure in Calgary due to the way he was used, his value in St. Louis is much higher because of what he is being asked to do and what his roles/responsibilities are. He's been two different players - but he's the same guy.

Therefore it's a bit unfair to use just points and GP to see who the top d-man was in each draft year.

Furthermore, what about development? Just like the Oilers make every defenseman look awful, is it a coincidence that Bogosian never really developed as a top-pairing guy (and Schenn two picks later) while Drew Doughty has?

PeteMoss · 01-11-2014, 10:36 AM

Thought this post by Table 5 in the PGT of the Blues thread was interesting.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=102

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

They've had a 1st overall (Erik Johnson, that was turned into Shatenkirk, Stewart and Rattie) and a 4th (Alex Pietrangelo)....something the Flames have never had. They never went full Oiler, but those two high picks are a big reason why they have perhaps the best Dcore in the entire league.

Drafting high is how almost every single cup winner in the last few years has got there. Do you really think the Kings would win the Cup without Doughty? The Hawks without Toews and Kane? The Pens without Crosby or Malkin?

Everybody is always so paranoid about turning into the Oilers, that they forget that in reality, you're much more likely to get better than worse. In the last 10 years, there are only two teams who didn't significantly get better because of a #1 pick...the Oilers and the Islanders (and it would be foolish to say the Isles aren't a better team with Tavares).

Yes, drafting is high is not perfect, but it sure seems like the best formula for success. Until someone suggests one that is more effective, that's the one you go with.

When you look at the better teams in the league.. when they had their high picks, they didn't all go forward or defense.
Chicago - two forwards plus defenseman who was a bust (Toews, Kane and Barker)
LA - Defense/Forward (Doughty, Hickey, B.Schenn)
St. Louis - Defense (Pietrangelo, E. Johnson)
Pittsburgh - Forwards/Goalie (Fleury, Malkin, Crosby)
Boston - Forward/Defense (Seguin, D.Hamilton)
Anaheim - Foward/Defense (Ryan, Smid, Lindholm)

I think you have to trust your scouting to be able to find the right guys. If that guy is a defenseman you pull the trigger. Eliminating all defenseman because they are a higher risk is not smart.

sureLoss · 01-11-2014, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Eliminating all defenseman because they are a higher risk is not smart.

I don't believe anyone is saying that.

The argument is that if you have forwards in the same tier as a defensemen you take the forwards over the defensemen.

Of course if there is a significant drop off from a defenseman to the next highest ranked forward you take the defenseman.

Caged Great · 01-11-2014, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I don't believe anyone is saying that.

The argument is that if you have forwards in the same tier as a defensemen you take the forwards over the defensemen.

Of course if there is a significant drop off from a defenseman to the next highest ranked forward you take the defenseman.

This, exactly.

If the Flames are picking first, go with Reinhart or Dal Colle over Ekblad.

If the Flames are picking 4th and Ekblad is on the board, go with him.

It's all about relative value. Both Dal Colle and Reinhart are in the same ball park potential wise as Ekblad, so I'd take the two forwards over the D because the forwards are more guaranteed to reach their potential. However, if you're past that point where you're choosing between Draisaitl/Bennett and Ekblad, you go with Eks because his upside is higher.

You saw this last year, where all of Jones, Mac, Barkov, and Drouin were in the same ballpark potential wise as they all looked like top end 1st line talent. The three forwards all went first. Lindholm/Monahan/Nichushkin though all had some question marks on their overall potential, and were a step down from the other forwards, so despite the Preds already have a lot of good defensemen in their system, took Jones because he was the best relative to the place they were picking even though their forward group is worse than ours currently.

dammage79 · 01-11-2014, 05:50 PM

Todd Cordell ‏@ToddCordell 37s
Aaron Ekblad steps into one and it's 2-0 Barrie. He has two goals tonight, one on the PP and one on the PK.
Retweeted by Lee Snowden

Ashasx · 01-11-2014, 05:52 PM

...I don't know the difference between these two threads.

bluck · 01-11-2014, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

...I don't know the difference between these two threads.

Same here..time for a merge...

moon · 01-11-2014, 06:34 PM

I would hope if it is between Ekblad and Dal Colle we take Ekblad.

Tougher choice with Reinhart and Bennett.

sureLoss · 01-11-2014, 06:55 PM

Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC
Aaron Ekblad has four goals in the first 33 minutes tonight for Barrie.

we should get him just for the safeway million dollar score and win possibility

Table 5 · 01-11-2014, 06:57 PM

That's pretty impressive. Cant wait to see him live on Wednesday.

Ashasx · 01-11-2014, 06:59 PM

Seth Jones had 14 goals in 61 games playing for the stacked Winterhawks.

Ekblad has 14 goals in 31 games playing for Barrie.

nik- · 01-11-2014, 06:59 PM

Can we make these two draft threads duel to the death in a pit of sand?

Poe969 · 01-11-2014, 07:01 PM

I'm willing it bet Burke does everything he can to get Ekblad at the draft

dammage79 · 01-11-2014, 07:03 PM

At this point, bring on the suck if that means the Flames can draft Ekblad. The beardy one is the right guy for this team.

Ashasx · 01-11-2014, 07:06 PM

It sucks that he's probably going to be an Oiler.

He's the definition of a Burke player.

Poe969 · 01-11-2014, 07:10 PM

The oilers won't finish last and Burke could trade up to get him. He's too good to be an oiler, they'd probably pass on him anyway because he's exactly what they need

nik- · 01-11-2014, 07:11 PM

The Universe owes us a lottery win. The Universe will probably pee in our eyes though.

nik- · 01-11-2014, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poe969

The oilers won't finish last and Burke could trade up to get him. He's too good to be an oiler, they'd probably pass on him anyway because he's exactly what they need

Is it worth the cost though? If we have the 2nd pick, just take who is left, we need both. I still prefer Reinhart.