Should Treliving Be Fired?

[Vinny01]

This is the first coaching hire of the Treliving/Burke era. Listening to Burke today he wants the team to play meaner and more puck possession than scoring off the rush.

I think we see a first time NHL coach with an outside shot at the return or Playfair

[Ashasx]

I really don't understand why Playfair is being mentioned so often in this thread. What have I missed?

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

I actually voted No. The Hamilton trade buys him another year. But if doesn't improve the Goalie position, RW, LW depth he should be. If the Flames finish this year in the bottom 10 then Treliving should be fired.

You actually voted yes tho

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by codynw

Both at the same time.

Thanks. So I guess they essentially kept Bollig or Jooris over Byron.

Anyway no need to rehash it. Any of those guys might have been claimed.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Treliving not only dropped the ball on the goaltending, but he also saturated the roster and forced good players to be waived (ie Byron) when others who were under contract were not (ie Raymond).

That said, his record has been relatively immaculate. I say we wait until the JG, Mony, and Colborne signings to get out the pitch forks

It was excessive waivers in general. He waived Ramo after three starts because he didn't want to waive Ortio, who went through waivers anyway.

[ricosuave]

What is the point of this thread? To me, this seems more lock-worthy than some of the more recent ones...

Even if, for a second, Treliving was to blame for all the Flames problems, then due to the nature of his position, he has a right to fire the guy below him, thus saving his own neck! Wow! Imagine that!

Whether or not those 19 people thought Hartley was given the shaft is largely irrelevant.

[Roof-Daddy]

I like Byron as much as anybody and hated losing him, but that loss is hardly something to be overly worried about long term, and certainly isn't even close to enough ammo to oust the GM.

Also, hanging the goaltending on BT is ridiculous. Where there's smoke there's fire, and a lot of it last off season pointed to BT going after Jones and looking to deal Hiller. Rumor was Hiller to SJ, and I imagine LA was ready to make BT pay through the teeth to acquire Jones in division.

So Treliving puts that on the back burner and suddenly finds himself, through due diligence and hard work mind you, landing a 21 year old 40+ point, 6'5" 220lb right handed defenseman. Just like that the assets to snag Jones are gone and he ends up going out east, only to be flipped back to San Jose which took them out of the discussion for Hiller.

So then BT brings back Ramo, and suddenly the Flames have the same goalie tandem that held the fort all the way to round 2 of the SC playoffs in the previous season, both of whom were going to pushed by young upstart Ortio who had come off a solid AHL season, and who had also help up well in call ups to the NHL.

They ALL crapped the bed. This is BT's fault how?

Anyways, that's how I see it.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I like Byron as much as anybody and hated losing him, but that loss is hardly something to be overly worried about long term, and certainly isn't even close to enough ammo to oust the GM.

Also, hanging the goaltending on BT is ridiculous. Where there's smoke there's fire, and a lot of it last off season pointed to BT going after Jones and looking to deal Hiller. Rumor was Hiller to SJ, and I imagine LA was ready to make BT pay through the teeth to acquire Jones in division.

So Treliving puts that on the back burner and suddenly finds himself, through due diligence and hard work mind you, landing a 21 year old 40+ point, 6'5" 220lb right handed defenseman. Just like that the assets to snag Jones are gone and he ends up going out east, only to be flipped back to San Jose which took them out of the discussion for Hiller.

So then BT brings back Ramo, and suddenly the Flames have the same goalie tandem that held the fort all the way to round 2 of the SC playoffs in the previous season, both of whom were going to pushed by young upstart Ortio who had come off a solid AHL season, and who had also help up well in call ups to the NHL.

They ALL crapped the bed. This is BT's fault how?

Anyways, that's how I see it.

Forget that. He could have just not signed Ramo. 2 goalies, boom. Ortio gets the backup 1-way contract he deserves, Hiller starts game #1.

All 29 teams know they shouldn't help Treliving and the Flames land a goalie. Conroy said as much in an interview on 960 awhile ago.

[mile]

The goaltending is easily fixable.

Allowing the terrible special teams and systems play to continue? That can seriously hurt a rebuilding team, long-term.

Treliving has the right ideas about building the team. That's way more important than a goaltending mistake that can be corrected and only affected one season (a rebuilding one at that). It's stupid to fire him as a sort of "punishment" for something that happened over one season. Why exactly are you going to do after you fire him? You'd have to start over again and it doesn't even make sense because Burke wouldn't hire anyone else and he would have to be fired too. There isn't any long-term thinking in this at all.

Firing him also means you're abandoning the current philosophy and looking for a new one. I don't want a new one. Having a stable management is also important and is a big part of the reason why we can sign free agents like Pribyl and why Jankowski is comfortable enough in committing to the development plan the Flames have for him.

I'm glad Treliving thinks the current style of play was a weakness. It's better to hire a new coach and instill a better system now, rather than just fix the goaltending and mask the problems with our puck possession and defensive play.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Treliving has done nothing to warrant being fired.

Goalie situation: If anything, he was covering all bases, and hoping to unload Hiller. With hindsight, that was the right move. Also, it was Sigalet that worked hard with Ramo and got him back on track apparently. Ramo was better than average once he finally got going. Treliving had a body of work with Ramo and Hiller, and that body of work showed "at least average", but he was also in on all the goalie rumors that off-season.

Byron - I love Byron, but Byron is not a guy you fire someone over. Treliving took the risk that he would clear waivers and could give the Flames some flexibility, and it didn't pan out. Love the kid, but hardly something to point at as a huge loss.

The Hartley firing today - I think Hartley is right for the job as head coach of the Flames, and I really enjoyed how fun the Flames were to watch him during his tenure. Still, even as big of a fan as I am, I can rationally see why Treliving (and Burke, and the assistant GMs, and the Owners) decided to move in a different direction. It happens. Shocking? Yep, I was shocked with the news today, but I wouldn't say it was unfair or an irrational move.

What I do think happened today is that now Treliving is 'on the clock'. I think once a GM fires a coach and brings in his own coach, that magical arbitrary clock starts. He has this next coach, and probably another one or two coaching tenure's worth of time (barring a horrible series of trades).

Treliving is not any closer to getting fired today than he was yesterday, or the first day he got hired. His 'bad moves' were negligibly bad - just a few big contracts thrown at some free agents in an effort to shelter the kids who were not expected to start being this good this soon. His trades have been fantastic (if you ignore Ricardow's posts anyways), and he has handled himself well within the media.

I see absolutely no reason to even create this thread. Shocked it came up actually, and even more shocked at the number of votes.

I also think GMs take a much longer time for a team to 'figure out'. For instance, Darryl Sutter was atrocious at drafting for the most part, but there was a clear improvement as the years went on and as he rebuilt the drafting and development departments. Feaster came in and took all the credit for it. Now, I think Feaster did a decent job in adding to those processes, but he reaped a lot of fruits that Sutter was cultivating for a number of years. Likewise, we don't know how much Treliving has shaped the team yet. It probably has taken him a year or two now to figure out all the prospects, the development program (to which he made a significant change to), the scouting department and who he could or could not trust, etc.

I think pretty much unless a GM just 'blows it', you have to give a GM at least 5 years to start judging their work outside of trades (trades you can see right away). It does take a hiring/firing of a coaching staff or two as well I think. Benning you can make an exception for it seems with the contracts and some of the moves he is making (almost Feaster-like in some ways), but Treliving has been fairly good thus far.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Forget that. He could have just not signed Ramo. 2 goalies, boom. Ortio gets the backup 1-way contract he deserves, Hiller starts game #1.

All 29 teams know they shouldn't help Treliving and the Flames land a goalie. Conroy said as much in an interview on 960 awhile ago.

Ramo was our best goaltender this season until he got injured. Not signing him wouldn't have made the goaltending any better, and then folks like you would just be saying "Why didn't Treliving sign Ramo?! He wanted to be here, and Ortio clearly wasn't ready, and Hiller is terrible!"

Point is, the players not performing is on them not the GM.

Also, I didn't say other teams should help BT land a goalie. I said he was trying to land a better younger goalie, and unload Hiller as well. Just because that plan failed doesn't mean it's BT's fault Hiller turned into hot garbage this season.

[FeyWest]

Al I know is I would not have voted to vote Hartley but the fact they did because of a different vision and the belief that Hartley is not the guy who's going to bring the team to the next level I can agree with. I always expected Hartley to just be a bridging coach, I can't remember who the Fan960 quoted but this isn't Show-Friendship, it's Show-Business. Hell Tre even said flat out that he is to blame for the 3-headed monster and is currently looking to rectify it.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

"The goaltending issue is easily fixable"

-fan of the team that has had two quality starters in 30 years

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Are we still talking about this?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

"The goaltending issue is easily fixable"

-fan of the team that has had two quality starters in 30 years

But potentially heading into a summer where more goalies could be available than ever due to expansion draft protection concerns.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

But potentially heading into a summer where more goalies could be available than ever due to expansion draft protection concerns.

True. A guy like BT is going to smash this opportunity out of the park I bet.

Still, it's a funny sentiment considering the history of the franchise.

[mile]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

"The goaltending issue is easily fixable"

-fan of the team that has had two quality starters in 30 years

Which has absolutely nothing to do with now.

It's been identified as a problem. We have assets and there are lots of options via trade or free agency, there isn't any reason why it shouldn't be fixed this summer.

[powderjunkie]

Getting average goaltending is pretty hard (say 11th-20th in the league), and top 10/top 5 goaltending harder still.

It should be easy to move up from 30th best goaltending, but that's not saying much.


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[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I like Byron as much as anybody and hated losing him, but that loss is hardly something to be overly worried about long term, and certainly isn't even close to enough ammo to oust the GM.

Also, hanging the goaltending on BT is ridiculous. Where there's smoke there's fire, and a lot of it last off season pointed to BT going after Jones and looking to deal Hiller. Rumor was Hiller to SJ, and I imagine LA was ready to make BT pay through the teeth to acquire Jones in division.

So Treliving puts that on the back burner and suddenly finds himself, through due diligence and hard work mind you, landing a 21 year old 40+ point, 6'5" 220lb right handed defenseman. Just like that the assets to snag Jones are gone and he ends up going out east, only to be flipped back to San Jose which took them out of the discussion for Hiller.

So then BT brings back Ramo, and suddenly the Flames have the same goalie tandem that held the fort all the way to round 2 of the SC playoffs in the previous season, both of whom were going to pushed by young upstart Ortio who had come off a solid AHL season, and who had also help up well in call ups to the NHL.

They ALL crapped the bed. This is BT's fault how?

Anyways, that's how I see it.

I'm not sure why people keep insisting that Treliving gets a free pass on the goalie situation. He point blank said in the interview today, that the goaltending issues were on him, and he needs to fix it.

It's not like Jones was the only option, there was some decent UFA goalies available. (Niemi, Greiss, Enroth, Lindback, Ellis)

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

I'm not sure why people keep insisting that Treliving gets a free pass on the goalie situation. He point blank said in the interview today, that the goaltending issues were on him, and he needs to fix it.

It's not like Jones was the only option, there was some decent UFA goalies available. (Niemi, Greiss, Enroth, Lindback, Ellis)

People are giving him a pass because at the time of the decision, it seemed to be reasonable Plan B... going back to the platoon that helped us get into the second round of the playoffs didn't seem to be a horrid decision at the time.

Treliving made a mistake by not trying to address it later on, but with the platoon system, i think eveyone hoped that one goalie would be able to heat up if the other was playing poorly.