2016/2017 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Trading down in the first round rarely happens in the NHL for a reason. It's more fan speculation and fantasy from watching too many NFL drafts where trading down is a legit strategy. It's rarely a good idea to decrease your odds of getting a good player. If Brad really like a player that he thinks may be available at 20 he would be better served taking him at 16 and not running the risk of another team taking him.

Trading down in the 1st round literally happens almost every year in the NHL.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Trading down in the 1st round literally happens almost every year in the NHL.

Okay go ahead and inform us all about how often it happens and not the 28th overall for two 2nd round picks ones.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Trading down in the first round rarely happens in the NHL for a reason.

During the 2016 draft alone it happened multiple times. I wouldn't say it rarely happens.

Devils traded down the 11th to 12th (Senators traded up)

Flyers traded down the 18th to 22nd (Winnipeg traded up)

Washington traded down the 26th to 28th (St. Louis traded up)


That's not even counting the Coyotes moving up from 20th to 16th in the Datsyuk trade.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

During the 2016 draft alone it happened multiple times. I wouldn't say it rarely happens.

Devils traded down the 11th to 12th (Senators traded up)

Flyers traded down the 18th to 22nd (Winnipeg traded up)

Washington traded down the 26th to 28th (St. Louis traded up)


That's not even counting the Coyotes moving up from 20th to 16th in the Datsyuk trade.

Yeah but last year wasn't the norm. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think teams go into the mindset that they are going to trade down and it's usually more a team that badly wants to trade up making it worth their while.

[GoJetsGo]

Our current top offensive prospect was the result of trading down when we had a pick in the mid teens.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Our current top offensive prospect was the result of trading down when we had a pick in the mid teens.

And as a result we passed up drafting a guy already contributing offense at the NHL level.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Parallex

And as a result we passed up drafting a guy already contributing offense at the NHL level.

Really? Please elaborate. I don't think that discussion has been had here before.

I'm just saying it does happen, and I wouldn't be shocked to see it happen again.

[Kovaz]

Going back farther:

2015:
None

2014:
CHI trades 20, 179 to SJ for 27, 62

2013:
DET trades 18 to SJ for 20, 58

2012:
CGY trades 14 to BUF for 21, 42

2011:
ANA trades 22 to TOR for 30, 39 (Biggs for Rakell + Gibson)
DET trades 24 to OTT for 35, 48

2010:
LA trades 15 to FLA for 19, 59
ARI trades 22, 113 to MTL for 27, 57

2009:
MIN trades 12 to NYI for 16, 77, 181
CBJ trades 16, 77 to NYI for 26, 37, 62, 97
CGY trades 20 to NJD for 23, 84

etc.

Typical is one or two per year, and to be honest there's a lot of value to be had in moving down. Teams tend to overvalue high picks, as per this article:

For example the value of a late first-round pick from a contending team is actually closer in value to any third-round selection than it is to a top-five pick. Thinking of this from a glass-half-full perspective for a team trying to rebuild, this suggests that adding multiple second- or third-round selections is likely an easier way to improve the roster of a team than holding out for that tough-to-obtain first-round choice when the market is far more thin.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I'm just saying it does happen, and I wouldn't be shocked to see it happen again.

...and I'm just saying that having acquired our top offensive prospect in that manner isn't an argument that it should be done. Every situation is different.

For the record I wouldn't be shocked to see it happen again either (depending whose on the board).

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Okay go ahead and inform us all about how often it happens and not the 28th overall for two 2nd round picks ones.

Just go to prosportstransactions under nhl and draft pick transactions. You can go back and look at all the drafts, who was picked and all the trades that happened.

Pretty much every year someone trades down a few spots to pick up extra picks.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Parallex

...and I'm just saying that having acquired our top offensive prospect in that manner isn't an argument that it should be done. Every situation is different.

For the record I wouldn't be shocked to see it happen again either (depending whose on the board).

I missed the part where anyone said anything about whether or not it should have been done.

It was just one example in many showing that trading down is a regular occurrence at the draft, which was the contention being disputed.

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I do not agree with this approach in the slightest. Firstly the NFL draft is far different than the NHL. Teams are getting starters in the late rounds of the NFL draft where hockey you draft 3-5 year projects outside of the first 2 rounds.

I rather Calgary take the BPA at 16 or trade back 5-8 spots if they can get a 2nd (they added a 2nd moving from 14-21 in 2012)

Even at #16, you are looking at a 2-3 year commitment to get an NHL'er. Wouldn't you prefer 3 or 4 kicks at the can than just one?

[Corral]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah, only a few exceptions : Malkin, Hornqvist, Hagelin last year (and Malkin has an MVP from his 09 win too). Hossa (a PO stud), Hjarmalsson, Teravainen, the year before. Kopitar in 2014 and 2012 says hi. Led the team in PO points when winning the cup. Same year as Gaborik led the team in PO goals. And Boston - they had Kreiji, Chara, Seidenberg, Kaberle.

Oh and, the Wings in 08 didn't just have Datsyuk and Zetterberg as Euros. They had Hossa, Lidstrom, Franzen, Hudler, Kronwall, Holmstrom, Filpulla, Samuelsonn.

Sounds good brother - load yourself up with those euros. Don't think for a second the Penguins are winning anything without Crosby and their Canadian goaltenders. I'll give you Hossa - agreed. The rest of them can line up with the Sedin twins - no thanks. Kaberle? really?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by InCoGnEtO

Even at #16, you are looking at a 2-3 year commitment to get an NHL'er. Wouldn't you prefer 3 or 4 kicks at the can than just one?

Not if the first kick is pushed back 14 spots as you suggest. I prefer taking the best player at 16 as I feel (hope) that is the highest we draft over the next several years.

I don't feel trading back has as many benefits in hockey as it does in football.

[GoJetsGo]

I'd like to see us take the best player available at 16 but still have a sneaking suspicion this pick may be dealt in part for a goalie or top six winger.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I'd like to see us take the best player available at 16 but still have a sneaking suspicion this pick may be dealt in part for a goalie or top six winger.

I just can't see Treliving putting the team in a spot where the first pick they make is the 4th round. I also don't know which if any assets he would be looking to move strictly for picks?

What makes this summer intriguing but also frustrating is the lack of tradeable assets on the Flames right now. The team is not in a spot they can afford to trade a NHL Dman. Perhaps they could move one of Andersen, Kylington, Hickey, or Fox since all 4 are promising PMD prospects? It is unfortunate the likes of Porier, Shinkaruk, Klimchuck haven't lived up to the first round pedigree and all have little value out there today. Goaltending I could see the Flames being fine to part with McDonald or Rittich but I suspect they wouldn't entertain moving Parsons at all and Gillies only in a move that results in a legit 5+ season starter (Schneider)

On the main roster they likely do not want to move any of the protected players and that leaves the likes of Chiasson, Bouma, Stajan, Brouwer, Bartkowski as low value trade chips.

Trading their 2nd and 3rd were done in deals I supported and I feel both Lazar and Stone will have a future with the Flames. It just sucks in a summer when there is a ton of movement speculation the Flames lack the assets to be a big player. Hopefully Treliving has something up his sleeve

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I just can't see Treliving putting the team in a spot where the first pick they make is the 4th round.

I agree with the concern of not having a pick until the fourth round and don't think they'd look to move the 1st for no reason...

but if the 'spot' the team is to be put in is obtaining a true #1 starter and the pick is part of that package, I could definitely see it moving.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I agree with the concern of not having a pick until the fourth round and don't think they'd look to move the 1st for no reason...

but if the 'spot' the team is to be put in is obtaining a true #1 starter and the pick is part of that package, I could definitely see it moving.

I agree I definitely do not see the 16th pick as an untouchable asset. For instance if the Devils say they wanted 16, Gillies, Hickey, rights to Elliott (costing us a 3rd) for Schneider I would make that move without hesitation. If Philly would move Simmonds for a package around that pick ornthe Jets wanted that pick ++++ for Trouba I do it.

It has to answer the need for a top 3 winger, top 4D, or long term starting goalie

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Corral

Sounds good brother - load yourself up with those euros. Don't think for a second the Penguins are winning anything without Crosby and their Canadian goaltenders. I'll give you Hossa - agreed. The rest of them can line up with the Sedin sisters - no thanks. Kaberle? really?

It's been said before, but to use the phrase "Sedin sisters" renders your already-ethnocentric post entirely worthless. Get that misogynist nonsense out of here.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Parallex

And as a result we passed up drafting a guy already contributing offense at the NHL level.

I assume you mean Hertl a year removed from his best season of 21G/25A? I mean it's nice, but it's basically a Frolik trajectory. I think Jankowski projects as a better hockey player than a Frolik... which in turn if we do that again this draft I can more than live with. Just gotta get someone better than Sieloff for the tradedown though.