My Friend Is a Teacher, And The Boss Sucks! Advice?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Sample00

a) I didn't glorify my wife's job, I took exception to the fact, that someone felt that teachers only work from 8:30 - 3:30 and they have all this other time off and they get overpaid for it. That was my biggest beef!

b)ever live in a small community? and no, I'm not saying it happens all the time but my wife's principal has been called 3 times, this year already, from parents who saw teachers drinking copious amounts of alcohol, when in reality they went to a local lounge and had a couple of drinks on a friday after work. Small community, big microscope.

Yup, around 650 people at the time, maybe 850 now. I know all about small communities and the gossip that can ensue.

And if your teachers are getting razzed for something as simple as a few social drinks, then it should be up to the principal to tell those parents, that unless they have absolute proof that the drinking was out of hand and that the drinking had a direct effect on the teacher's performance in the classroom, then it is none of their business. Parents these days presume they have way too much control on teaching in general. They have to learn to mind their own business as well.

[Peanut]

I don't think teacher's are over-compensated. But I also am not sure I would support the opinion that they are undercompensated. Most professionals (teacher's are professionals IMO) are required to put in overtime and are not compensated for it (vacation time or otherwise).

As for the nursing comment from a few pages back... from the time I spent in the hospital this year, I learned that being a Nurse is the complete opposite of an easy job. I always respected their profession before, but Nurses are on a whole new level of awesomeness for me now. Plus the shifts they have to work are horrible. I could never do it.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Peanut

I don't think teacher's are over-compensated. But I also am not sure I would support the opinion that they are undercompensated. Most professionals (teacher's are professionals IMO) are required to put in overtime and are not compensated for it (vacation time or otherwise).

As for the nursing comment from a few pages back... from the time I spent in the hospital this year, I learned that being a Nurse is the complete opposite of an easy job. I always respected their profession before, but Nurses are on a whole new level of awesomeness for me now. Plus the shifts they have to work are horrible. I could never do it.

Yeah I spent a week in the hospital a few years ago and the nurses' compassion and empathy blew me away. They were amazing. Not to say I haven't had amazing teachers as well, but I'm not sure why the two professions are so often compared to each other as being similar.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah I spent a week in the hospital a few years ago and the nurses' compassion and empathy blew me away. They were amazing. Not to say I haven't had amazing teachers as well, but I'm not sure why the two professions are so often compared to each other as being similar.

Because on the whole, not many people are actually in a hospital setting where they can actually witness nurses on duty. You know the old saying, "seeing is believing".

[Byrns]

Nurse do work incredibly hard (my sister's a RN for more than 20 years now), but they are very well paid. (with OT)

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by redforever

Yup, around 650 people at the time, maybe 850 now. I know all about small communities and the gossip that can ensue.

And if your teachers are getting razzed for something as simple as a few social drinks, then it should be up to the principal to tell those parents, that unless they have absolute proof that the drinking was out of hand and that the drinking had a direct effect on the teacher's performance in the classroom, then it is none of their business. Parents these days presume they have way too much control on teaching in general. They have to learn to mind their own business as well.

they have been given this power by the Government. Why you ask?
Because the government made education about dollars and cents. School administrators, superintendents and I will even go so far to say alberta education backs right down when they have a parent complaint. Why? because the government tied kids to dollars. When a school loses a kid they lose that childs funding as well. Parents know this! They will yank kids from a school because a) they can, b) there are a lot of options out there for parents now and c) government gave the parents that control.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

It seems to me that a lot of the pro-teacher arguments involve people who clearly go above and beyond what is actually required of them. I'm sure they are great teachers because of this but. . .just because they do these things does not mean that all teachers are required to. For example, buying classroom tools out of your own pocket is not required. Like everyone else in this thread (haha) I have a bunch of CBE teacher friends and it seems like there is a new trend to not spend any of your own money for your classroom. The ultimate goal is for the financial plans to be restructured so that they won't rely on teachers to use their own money.

As for how much teachers work after hours, I do know that in addition to regular class time they are also required to put in extra curricular efforts such as being a football coach or something. The lesson planning/marking is also mostly done after hours but the more experienced you are the easier those duties become. Teachers work hard but I would say they don't work any harder than than any other career I know of. In this day and age, everyone I know puts in extra hours at night or on the weekends. Tis life.

As for the vacation time, yes, teachers get more than any other profession I've ever heard of. All of my friends never do any work over the summer and a lot of them proceed to take 6 to 8 week vacations abroad. They go back to work about 5-7 days before the school year begins from what I've seen. One thing a lot of people are considering though is the exchange of salary for the time off? Would you rather have the time off from work for a reduced salary or work more from increased pay? Tough question in my opinion.

All in all, I appreciate the social service that teachers do but I'm kind of sick of all my teacher buddies bragging to me about how much time they get off . . . dinks . If you want to talk about a crappy teaching gig lets talk about being a sessional instructor at a university haha.

Good post, and I think this is fair comment. There are some outstanding teachers out there that go far beyond the call of duty...however there are others that are more or less putting in time. The added twist is the unionization factor (I have a bunch of teachers in my family and friends, they all cringe when I call it that, they prefer "professional association" lol) which is fairly unique among professions requiring a degree, and makes it more difficult to get rid of underperformers.

The teachers that I know keep telling me what a good gig it is outside of a few headaches which seem to be generally "difficult parent" or "bad administrator" related.

One downside to teacher's holidays that may not have been mentioned is that: 1. they are pretty much set in stone unless you want to pay for someone to sub for you and 2. they are all at peak times so teachers are always paying top dollar to get away. No cheap flights for them.

[bcb]

IMO, you could cut a teacher's salary in half and increase the length of the school year by a month, and people would still complain. Why, I don't know.

[Sample00]

the other night my wife told me that Alberta Education is seriously considering revamping the school year to accommodate year round schooling. To be continued....

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Sample00

the other night my wife told me that Alberta Education is seriously considering revamping the school year to accommodate year round schooling. To be continued....

That is a great idea. It's a shame such expensive infrastructure goes basically unused for 12 weeks a year. I would think if as a society we were designing the education system from scratch tomorrow the system we'd end up with would be different from what we have today and would include much more efficient use of buildings.

[flamingreen]

Originally Posted by Sliver

That is a great idea. It's a shame such expensive infrastructure goes basically unused for 12 weeks a year. I would think if as a society we were designing the education system from scratch tomorrow the system we'd end up with would be different from what we have today and would include much more efficient use of buildings.

What's funny is if you looked into the history of our current system it is based on the ideal of efficiency. Split up the student's work, drill home the important point, test them, repeat. If anything, from what we know now about education and learning a new system would be anything but efficient.

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by Sample00

the other night my wife told me that Alberta Education is seriously considering revamping the school year to accommodate year round schooling. To be continued....

I have also heard that this idea is gaining a lot of traction this year. I guess both the staff and students at year round schools love it.

[Locke]

So, what do I have to do to become a teacher in a small town? I think this could be fun....

Townsperson 1: "So, I saw Locke at the bar again"
Townsperson 2: "Really? When was that?"
Townsperson 1: "Oh, around 11:30, he was really tying one on!"
Townsperson 2: "Wow, 11:30 on a weeknight, was he hungover this morning? We might have to do something about this...."
Townsperson 1: "Weeknight? I was having breakfast...."
Townsperson 2:
Townsperson 1: "Say, doesnt your kid typically have english around then?"
Townsperson 2: ""

[Russic]

Originally Posted by Sliver

That is a great idea. It's a shame such expensive infrastructure goes basically unused for 12 weeks a year. I would think if as a society we were designing the education system from scratch tomorrow the system we'd end up with would be different from what we have today and would include much more efficient use of buildings.

Hey look at that! We agree!

The summer is a pain in the ass imo. Parents that both work have to find activities for their kids (when they are young enough). I can't speak for everybody, but most people I know tended to get a little stir crazy by the end of it all. I can't source anything, but I'm pretty sure it isn't beneficial to the kids to have a sudden drop off of mental activities out of the blue (yes many do intellectual things over the summer, but many do not).

[Sample00]

^^^ good one, Locke. that was humourous!

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by flamingreen

What's funny is if you looked into the history of our current system it is based on the ideal of efficiency. Split up the student's work, drill home the important point, test them, repeat. If anything, from what we know now about education and learning a new system would be anything but efficient.

My wife about 10 years ago started a program where she "team taught" with 2 other teachers. The classroom had 75 kids in it.
The kids got no marks, but had to develop a portfolio.
The kids learned at their own pace, within reason of course and couldnt move on to the next section until they could prove that they had learned the previous section. When quizzed, if they got answers wrong, they were given the assignment/test back until they had it completely right. It was at that point that students could tell their parents that they knew 100% of the material covered.
Talk about breaking away from a normal education process. The program lasted 3 years. Grades 7,8,9. Some kids were pulled from the program because parents couldnt wrap their heads around no marks. Some parents didnt like the classroom setting. And there was a variety of other reasons.
The kids that did finish the program went into high school and obtained some of the highest overall marks that the school division has seen. All of the ones that completed the program graduated and many of them went on and completed post secondary education.

Sadly the program no longer exists because a new superintendent arrived and didnt agree with it. Parents also didnt like it because it wasnt traditional learning.

It was a good program.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Sample00

My wife about 10 years ago started a program where she "team taught" with 2 other teachers. The classroom had 75 kids in it.
The kids got no marks, but had to develop a portfolio.
The kids learned at their own pace, within reason of course and couldnt move on to the next section until they could prove that they had learned the previous section. When quizzed, if they got answers wrong, they were given the assignment/test back until they had it completely right. It was at that point that students could tell their parents that they knew 100% of the material covered.
Talk about breaking away from a normal education process. The program lasted 3 years. Grades 7,8,9. Some kids were pulled from the program because parents couldnt wrap their heads around no marks. Some parents didnt like the classroom setting. And there was a variety of other reasons.
The kids that did finish the program went into high school and obtained some of the highest overall marks that the school division has seen. All of the ones that completed the program graduated and many of them went on and completed post secondary education.

Sadly the program no longer exists because a new superintendent arrived and didnt agree with it. Parents also didnt like it because it wasnt traditional learning.

It was a good program.

This is nothing new. These type of programs are like fashions, they come around every 20 years or so.

I taught in the 70's and some of the 80's. Our feeder school was already using such a program.

Of course, there were the same complaints, some parents never liked the lack of structure or the setting, some never liked no marks, all the things you mentioned. The program had not been pulled when I quit teaching but I do not know if it is in existence at this point in time. My instincts say no.

Now, as a former teacher and a parent, here are my thoughts.

As a program designed for those who do not learn as well in a traditional setting, it is great. Or for those children who learn at an accelerated or gifted rate, again, such a program is great.

On the other hand, for those children who learn in a more traditional setting with more structure, such a program usually fails quite miserably.

So my conclusion would be, if such programs are offered along with traditional programs, not to replace them, I see great benefit. But to force such programs down the throats of the masses, no, I do not see that working.

My personal theory is these things follow the Bell curve. The majority will benefit from the standard that has served over the tests of time. Those on the right hand side of the curve, accelerated learners, would benefit from this, it could essentially be a gifted program. On the other hand , the learners at the left end of the curve would probably fall through the cracks unless it would be set up as a program similar to special needs programs.

What one should be very careful of, both as an educator and as a parent, are that these programs are not set up and used with our children being the guinea pigs.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Sample00

they have been given this power by the Government. Why you ask?
Because the government made education about dollars and cents. School administrators, superintendents and I will even go so far to say alberta education backs right down when they have a parent complaint. Why? because the government tied kids to dollars. When a school loses a kid they lose that childs funding as well. Parents know this! They will yank kids from a school because a) they can, b) there are a lot of options out there for parents now and c) government gave the parents that control.

And I agree. Parents these days are very aggressive and many can not even differentiate between discipline and abuse. Yet on the other hand, these same parents want the educators to teach their kids beyond what should be asked of them in the classroom...... because you know, they are all busy and both parents work and like when will they have the time to do some of that stuff, like isn't that what school is for?

But teachers also have to take back the rights that are theirs and they have to start by becoming their own advocates.

Look at some of the comments in this thread about teachers. You can not let yourself be walked over. It is bloody well ridiculous to think that parents can control your social life, small town or big town.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by redforever

This is nothing new. These type of programs are like fashions, they come around every 20 years or so.

I taught in the 70's and some of the 80's. Our feeder school was already using such a program.

Of course, there were the same complaints, some parents never liked the lack of structure or the setting, some never liked no marks, all the things you mentioned. The program had not been pulled when I quit teaching but I do not know if it is in existence at this point in time. My instincts say no.

Now, as a former teacher and a parent, here are my thoughts.

As a program designed for those who do not learn as well in a traditional setting, it is great. Or for those children who learn at an accelerated or gifted rate, again, such a program is great.

On the other hand, for those children who learn in a more traditional setting with more structure, such a program usually fails quite miserably.

So my conclusion would be, if such programs are offered along with traditional programs, not to replace them, I see great benefit. But to force such programs down the throats of the masses, no, I do not see that working.

My personal theory is these things follow the Bell curve. The majority will benefit from the standard that has served over the tests of time. Those on the right hand side of the curve, accelerated learners, would benefit from this, it could essentially be a gifted program. On the other hand , the learners at the left end of the curve would probably fall through the cracks unless it would be set up as a program similar to special needs programs.

What one should be very careful of, both as an educator and as a parent, are that these programs are not set up and used with our children being the guinea pigs.

People who've been teaching long enough tell me education theory is like a giant pendulum, in that it swings back and forth depending upon the fad of the day. Any educator who taught in the 1970's will tell of the failure of the open school concept. The idea was that students would learn if classrooms had no walls. Unfortunately, schools took on the atmosphere of an airport departure lounge.

My point is, government must be careful of revamping the entire system to accommodate the "idea of the day"

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by redforever

Yup, around 650 people at the time, maybe 850 now. I know all about small communities and the gossip that can ensue.

And if your teachers are getting razzed for something as simple as a few social drinks, then it should be up to the principal to tell those parents, that unless they have absolute proof that the drinking was out of hand and that the drinking had a direct effect on the teacher's performance in the classroom, then it is none of their business. Parents these days presume they have way too much control on teaching in general. They have to learn to mind their own business as well.

You always have your teacher hat on, so be sure to be professional. Be professional, oh and when you're doing your EDFX reflections be professional. Did I mention that you need to be professional?