Subban arbitration UPDATE: Signs 8 year/72 million deal

[Chill Cosby]

The thing about both Subban and Kane, and why they're as direct of comparables as a forward and defenceman can get is due to one thing:
Game breaking ability

Kane has an intangible ability to change games and create offensive opportunity unlike almost anyone else in the league. Every time he's on the ice, he's extremely dangerous. Guys like Kessel (and even Toews) out score him, but he is still on another level offensively. It's the reason he was even in the same ballpark as Toews when it came to dollars.

Subban is the same way. When Montreal is without him, they're worse. When he's on the ice, he can change the game in a way that nobody else on that roster can. He makes mistakes, and his zone coverage could be better, but the way he plays the game and effect he has is almost immeasurable.

I think they're absolutely close. I don't think you can definitively say one is better than the other because they're good for nearly the exact same reason. Subban deserves 8+, minimum, no question.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Between Kane and Subban:

One of them played top-line minutes in every high-pressure situation in his team's elimination game at the 2014 Olympics, and the other sat on the bench (or was it the press box?)

i get your point, but i think taking the olympic selection and place in depth chart is an unfair argument.

nobody in their right mind would say jay bouwmeester is better than subban, however, given the way the team was built and bearing in things like existing chemistry, handedness, blend of offense vs defense, had more to do with subban not playing. subban wasn't the 7th best dman on the roster.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

More anecdotes please

Not all anecdotes are equal though. The previously mentioned one was a single game. This is the opinion of arguably the best coach in the NHL, and his opinion of where and when to play Subban.

So yes, this means a lot more than you give it credit for.

[nik-]

Comparing playing time on Team Canada against Team USA is a pretty weak way to try and make an argument.

One is probably the most dominant single tourney team in history

The other didn't even medal.

[IgiTang]

But if Subban was that good, he would have made the D on team Canada better.. The fact of the matter is, hes not.

He is not a shutdown guy. He does not dictate board play in his own end. He isnt the best at clearing the front of the net and he gets caught out of position quite a bit.

Offensively, he takes alot of risks and banks on the fact that his linemates read his pinch and acknowledge hes trying to make something happen and cover his D position.

That said, he does generate o-zone opportunities, but often at the expense of his D-play.

Is he worth $8.5Mm for long term. Unfortunately yes... Someone would give it to him. So why not Montreal? But I HATE Subban for his antics on the ice and his overall akwardness during his goal celebrations.. He just seems like such a loser..

All my opinion. Arguing it wont change it so dont bother.

Cheers.

[nik-]

He may not have fit into Babcock's scheme, but it's kind of irrelevant. The Habs are paying him for what he does for the Habs, not Team Canada. And what he does for the Habs is pretty much run their show. To a much greater extent than Kane runs Chicago's.

[Table 5]

Both players are elite. But at the end of the day, when Kane is game breaking, his team is either raising the Stanley Cup or moving on to the next round. When Subban is game breaking, it's because half the time he's on his way to the penalty box and breaking his teams chances to win the game.

Both are elite, but one has done so at the most crucial of crucial times, while the other one has yet to get close. It might happen at some stage, but it sure hasn't happened yet. Patrick Kane might be one of the most clutch playoff performers in NHL history...the fact that he doesn't score as much as others in the regular season means diddly.

[Poe969]

wow, lets stop comparing Subban to Kane. Kane won cups but he is on an elite team, Subban carried his average team to the conference finals. They are both amazing players who play very different roles on very different teams. They're different but both elite.

[bubbsy]

agreed, my purpose was not to compare kane/subban.

my argument is that the deals out of CHI have shown that top5-8 forwards in the nhl got 10+ million. now we have a dman that is in that top5-8 dman conversation so should he also be in that range or perhaps close/approaching that range?

[Ashasx]

If any of our young players develop into the calibre of player that PK is today, I certainly hope the Flames would't treat them like this.

[nik-]

^ wouldn't?

[Poe969]

I agree. Kane is being paid a lot and Subban will be paid a lot too. They're both very valuable to their teams. I think Subban won't get as much as Kane only because defensemen don't usually get as much as forwards. I wouldn't be surprised if he got that much in a couple years though

[cam_wmh]

Ok moving on from the Kane conversation...

Am I correct in thinking that if the arbitrator awards a 2 yr term, is PK a UFA afterwards?
Due to being 27 yrs old, and 25 now.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

But if Subban was that good, he would have made the D on team Canada better.. The fact of the matter is, hes not.

He is not a shutdown guy. He does not dictate board play in his own end. He isnt the best at clearing the front of the net and he gets caught out of position quite a bit.

Offensively, he takes alot of risks and banks on the fact that his linemates read his pinch and acknowledge hes trying to make something happen and cover his D position.

That said, he does generate o-zone opportunities, but often at the expense of his D-play.

Is he worth $8.5Mm for long term. Unfortunately yes... Someone would give it to him. So why not Montreal? But I HATE Subban for his antics on the ice and his overall akwardness during his goal celebrations.. He just seems like such a loser..

All my opinion. Arguing it wont change it so dont bother.

Cheers.

Dude you seem like a loser if you hate someone because they are passionate about the game and play hard every game. This is exactly the type of player you need on your team. He's young, he's learning. He can improve and it seems like he is trying to do so. However you can't teach someone to play with as much fire as him. It's how you win.

[nik-]

Well that went well. Perhaps Bergevin should stick to dancing after goals and let someone else negotiate contracts.

https://twitter.com/reporterchris

@reporterchris
P.K. Subban says no deal was reached today. Arbitrator will decide his contract for next season. "We have to live with those decisions."

@reporterchris
P.K. Subban says no deal was reached today. Arbitrator will decide his contract for next season. "We have to live with those decisions."

@reporterchris
Don Meehan tells Sportsnet that there are no plans to continue negotiating a long-term deal for Subban before the arbitrator's award.

@reporterchris
Marc Bergevin: "I have nothing to say."

@reporterchris
There is obviously time for cooler heads to prevail but none of the principles left the Subban hearing in good spirits.

[Arya Stark]

I really hope Montreal pays big time for Subban. Their $5.25 million offer is insulting. Subban is worth at least $7 million so why not start off at a more respectable number? Low balling Subban is only going to anger him when he becomes a UFA and he will be looking for $8.5 million a year minimum.

[cKy]

I might of missed this in all the Kane talk, but if the meeting is over, how long does it usually take the arbitrator to make a decision. I assume they have a time frame they need to follow

[nik-]

Originally Posted by cKy

I might of missed this in all the Kane talk, but if the meeting is over, how long does it usually take the arbitrator to make a decision. I assume they have a time frame they need to follow

48 hours.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Ok moving on from the Kane conversation...

Am I correct in thinking that if the arbitrator awards a 2 yr term, is PK a UFA afterwards?
Due to being 27 yrs old, and 25 now.

You are correct that Subban is UFA status in 2 years. However the arbiter will only be awarding a one year deal if it comes to that. Both sides submitted one year proposals.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Dude you seem like a loser if you hate someone because they are passionate about the game and play hard every game. This is exactly the type of player you need on your team. He's young, he's learning. He can improve and it seems like he is trying to do so. However you can't teach someone to play with as much fire as him. It's how you win.

Yup.. im a loser because I expressed my opinion on a message board.. GJ!

Lets keep this about Subban and not get personal.