Subban arbitration UPDATE: Signs 8 year/72 million deal

[Tinordi]

Another New Era of horribly ignorant posts

[Mike F]

Both proponents and critics of Subban have plenty of legitimate arguments - there are reasons that he made the Canadian Olympic team (his game-breaking offensive skills), and there are reasons that he (essentially) never played (his frequent defensive lapses and me-first, damn the system attitude).

I wouldn't want the Flames building around him or committing that money over that term, but Montreal couldn't let him get to free-agency.

[codynw]

Subban is not "horrible defensively". Sure, he's not great, but he's also not Justin Schultz. He's a great offensive defenceman that isn't a disaster in his own zone, and $9M is reasonable for what he brings to his team. I would have thought $8.5M, but really that .5 isn't a huge difference.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by New Era

How so? Subban is a great offensive defenseman but a horrible defensive defenseman. He's very much like Letang in Pittsburgh. He'll win you some games, but he'll lose you just as many. Let's put it to you this way. Who would you want on your team? Paul Coffey or Al MacInnis? I'll pass on Coffey and take MacInnis. Same thing goes with Subban. I'll take quite a few defenders over Subban, especially at $9 million a season. That's crazy money for a player like that.

Big Al was pretty awful defensively for most of his time in Calgary, there was not much difference between him and Coffey for most of those years defensively. Funny thing about Big Al, he became a better defensive dman over the years, really coming into his own in his late 20's and 30's. I guess what I am saying is Big Al was godawful defensively until he was around PK's age and then became better defensively. You want to see something funny, watch Big Al skate in his first 3 years in the league.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Subban isn't the best defenseman in the NHL, but he is definitely in the top 10.

The different posters arguing from one extreme to the other is just proof that the offseason is too long.

Is he overpaid? Sure, but if he went to arbitration, then got a QO the for the following season, Montreal would have lost him for nothing in two seasons. Montreal had a lot less bargaining power as a result.

Additionally, arguing the Olympics on behalf of Subban being a great player is a terrible argument. He didn't play when it mattered most and was only there to learn. Kunitz played in the Olympics, further proof it's more political than merit.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Subban isn't the best defenseman in the NHL, but he is definitely in the top 10.

The different posters arguing from one extreme to the other is just proof that the offseason is too long.

Is he overpaid? Sure, but if he went to arbitration, then got a QO the for the following season, Montreal would have lost him for nothing in two seasons. Montreal had a lot less bargaining power as a result.

Additionally, arguing the Olympics on behalf of Subban being a great player is a terrible argument. He didn't play when it mattered most and was only there to learn. Kunitz played in the Olympics, further proof it's more political than merit.

Playing for team Canada at the Olympics as a defenceman is an impressive accomplishment. It means he is a top 15 dman in the world.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

I should add that doesn't mean I think all of the dmen on TC are in the top 15. Subban was probably #5 on that team if you discount the obsession with having to maintain LH/RH pairings.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I should add that doesn't mean I think all of the dmen on TC are in the top 15. Subban was probably #5 on that team if you discount the obsession with having to maintain LH/RH pairings.

How so? He was #8 on the depth chart plain and simple. What he brings to the table with his game was simply out matched by the others that actually got the minutes. I also feel that folks I der emphasize the importance of having LH/RH pairings. Its works, its the best system when you have the talent to do so.

And even when you take out the necessity team Canada had for the pairings they used, Bouwmeester, Vlasic has assignments the I personally believe Subban could not accomplish on par or better than them.

End quote.

On to the signing itself. I also feel its overpayment. More so the term than the dollars. He won't earn every year or every dollar of that contract and it will become a massive boat anchor at one point. Its his game that will prevent it.

I'm not as extreme as others but I do share the sentiment that the defensive aspect of Subbans style of play is lacking. He's average at best.

I just think if youre going to spend that much money , the athlete would be a little more well rounded than he is. Amazing offensive zone player, amazing skating ability, no problems with that at all. But he gets lost in his own zone a lot. Of the games I've watched. He loses his man a lot too. Or follows them behind the net like pahneuf used to in his finals couple of years in Calgary that made me bang my head in frustration on the table.

Anyways. Good for mtl to lock up their guy. Hope it works out.

[Jables16]

I have to say I really wasn't a big supporter of Subban at first but he really won me over in the last two years. The Habs were right to hardball him into that bridge deal because he was wanting this type of long term big money contract back then which he certainly had not earned.

However after winning the Norris, making Team Canada and then playing like he did in this year's playoffs its hard not to agree he earned this. The way he handled himself on and off the ice during that Bruins series was enough to show me he has really arrived.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by dammage79

How so? He was #8 on the depth chart plain and simple. What he brings to the table with his game was simply out matched by the others that actually got the minutes. I also feel that folks I der emphasize the importance of having LH/RH pairings. Its works, its the best system when you have the talent to do so.

And even when you take out the necessity team Canada had for the pairings they used, Bouwmeester, Vlasic has assignments the I personally believe Subban could not accomplish on par or better than them.

End quote.

On to the signing itself. I also feel its overpayment. More so the term than the dollars. He won't earn every year or every dollar of that contract and it will become a massive boat anchor at one point. Its his game that will prevent it.

I'm not as extreme as others but I do share the sentiment that the defensive aspect of Subbans style of play is lacking. He's average at best.

I just think if youre going to spend that much money , the athlete would be a little more well rounded than he is. Amazing offensive zone player, amazing skating ability, no problems with that at all. But he gets lost in his own zone a lot. Of the games I've watched. He loses his man a lot too. Or follows them behind the net like pahneuf used to in his finals couple of years in Calgary that made me bang my head in frustration on the table.

Anyways. Good for mtl to lock up their guy. Hope it works out.

Do you think Bouwmeester, Hamhuis and Vlasic are better hockey players than Subban? Would you trade Subban straight up for any of those 3?

People can claim politics all they want and yes, Kunitz on the team was BS. However, one area they nailed was defence. The only thing I would have done differently would be picking Giordano over Hamhuis. That's it.

Subban would have got more ice time if he was left handed. Hard to slight him for that.

[taco.vidal]

Im not sure what people thought this deal was going to get done for. This isn't a fantasy hockey player auction where you can pick which player you want to spend your dough on. The Habs had a great RFA Dman and needed to lock him up long term. Sure there might be better players but this is the guy they had access to and had to pay him to keep him. You can argue in hindsight that the bridge deal was messed up. However, in the reality they're at today, this was the money that needed to get this done.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Weber will make 11.5M a year, on average, for the first 8 years of his contract that will bring him close to 35. He'll still have 18M left on his contract after.

Suter will make 10M a year, on average, for the first 8 years of his contract that will will see him turn 35. He still have 18M left on his contract after.


Subban will have the highest cap-hit, but his 72M contract is significantly lower than Suter's 98M contract and especially Weber's 110M contract, so I wouldn't say he's the highest paid defenseman at all.

Thanks. Exactly the analysis i was looking for. Contract is reasonable under the new CBA (max 8 years) vs other high calibre blue liners.

[TjRhythmic]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Do you think Bouwmeester, Hamhuis and Vlasic are better hockey players than Subban? Would you trade Subban straight up for any of those 3?

People can claim politics all they want and yes, Kunitz on the team was BS. However, one area they nailed was defence. The only thing I would have done differently would be picking Giordano over Hamhuis. That's it.

Subban would have got more ice time if he was left handed. Hard to slight him for that.

Well... if he is sooo good then he should've played left handed

[StrykerSteve]

Too much money and term. I get why they did it, but the Habs will likely regret the deal before it's over. He's a great player though, so Habs fans should be pleased right now.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Too much money and term. I get why they did it, but the Habs will likely regret the deal before it's over. He's a great player though, so Habs fans should be pleased right now.

Another ignorant post from someone with a different opinion. /green text

[PlayfulGenius]

Subban's defensive game has improved a lot...those suggesting he's awful aren't watching closely...

...that being said, 9 mil seems a bit much to me...I'm not sure I wouldn't move him for a lesser top pairing D and a young forward, and perhaps have 2-3mil additional cap space to upgrade the Top 6...

...anyway, 8 mil seems more accurate for Subban's value.

[Erick Estrada]

The deal will work for the Habs in the short term but IMO Subban it's a lot of money for a guy that's not a complete defenseman and may never be. It's one of those deals where it will all depend on if Subban has hit his ceiling or if he can get more well rounded and mature. If we have already seen his best then it's probably not going to end well especially in that city.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Do you think Bouwmeester, Hamhuis and Vlasic are better hockey players than Subban? Would you trade Subban straight up for any of those 3?

People can claim politics all they want and yes, Kunitz on the team was BS. However, one area they nailed was defence. The only thing I would have done differently would be picking Giordano over Hamhuis. That's it.

Subban would have got more ice time if he was left handed. Hard to slight him for that.

Assignment specific (defensively and positionally), yes they are better than subban IMO.

[StrykerSteve]

I'll never understand why a guy would force a team to pay him those extra millions when all it does it give them a lesser depth overall. Take fewer dollars and let your GM sign additional talent, so you can increase your odds to win the Cup.

Is your bank account really going to notice if you're making 7 million or 9? At some point, it all just becomes more money than you could possibly spend.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

I'll never understand why a guy would force a team to pay him those extra millions

You don't understand why someone would want more money than less money?