Police shooting of unarmed teen leads to protests and Riot

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I get that they feel wronged. There was a sense of inevitablity that this guy wouldn't face any time in jail, in fact I predicted it earlier in this thread, but not even having a trial must just pour salt in the wound to the family.

I feel bad for the family, but the facts were the facts. The media is who they should be pointing the finger at, for putting so much bad info out there.

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Being a minority and feeling wronged doesn't give you the right to destory your own town though. I was hoping most of the destruction was being carried out by anarchist opportunists until I saw that video of the step dad doing his best Anthony Anderson from "Harold and Kumar go to Whitecastle" impression.

You really thought they were not going to destroy property? Enough apologist type support, in my opinion, and more tough love. The dude committed a violent robbery and assaulted a police officer, that is what should be the focus. Secondly, how to prevent more young men from following this path.

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

That shop owner was definitely a minority, I wonder if he feels more wronged by the police who investigated the robbery that started this whole sad chapter or the horde of rioters who trashed his store.

Wronged by the police? The guy who died and his accomplice is who he should be pointing a finger at.

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

To me this case has more to do with Police getting confrontational and a general atmosphere of distrust in the USA brought on by prevalent gun ownership. Young men don't trust Police, Police dont trust young men, the police are always armed and the young men are sometimes armed. The main thing that got reported by the media was White Cop Black Kid when if the confrontation was almost any other combination of races the story wouldn't have gone national but the main cause still would have been the same.

This case is only about a guy who committed a robbery and assaulted an officer, not any of the other so called 'causes' of other race issues or anything Sharpton says. This guy, according to the best witness there was, basically put someone's life in danger and died as a result.

The main thing reported by the media were a bunch of lies that set everything else off. But none of that had much to do with the case itself. Which turned out to not even be a case in the end.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

It amazes me how American National pride is viewed in such a negative light, yet everywhere I go in Canada there are Canadian flags everywhere.

Personally, I love seeing National flags flying, no matter what the country. I guess Americans aren't supposed to do that though.

I guess I took offense to your statement about Nugent being a spokesman for a set of people that fall into 3 common categories, 2 of which I belong to and one that I don't understand.

Somehow because I fly a flag and own a gun I'm stupid? Or is it the law and order part that would make me stupid? That's the one I don't understand. Either way, I think you just called me stupid.

Ha ha. I doubt you'd consider Ted Nugent a spokesman for you.

He loves America so much, he dodged the draft so he could play rock n' roll. He has said this publicly. But there he is, wrapping himself in the flag and promoting his version of "the American Way". Obviously there's nothing wrong with flying a flag, but he took drugs and #### in his pants for a month to avoid actually standing up for it. The stupid people are the ones who ignore this.

He was screwing a 17-year-old girl when he was 30 years old, and even went so far as to become her legal guardian, but he's all for law and order. Nothing wrong with law and order, but the stupid people ignore this nice little chapter and cheer every time he opens his yap about good American values.

He's a spokesman for the people he's a spokesman for. Nobody else. Those people are stupid.

Originally Posted by RyZ

What makes you think that Nugent is a voice for the anti-Mike Brown...

I don't.

Originally Posted by RyZ

Also, you seem to be insinuating that anybody that isn't firmly is Mike Browns corner is "stupid". Is that really how you want to come off?

No I'm not.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I get that they feel wronged. There was a sense of inevitablity that this guy wouldn't face any time in jail, in fact I predicted it earlier in this thread, but not even having a trial must just pour salt in the wound to the family.
Being a minority and feeling wronged doesn't give you the right to destory your own town though. I was hoping most of the destruction was being carried out by anarchist opportunists until I saw that video of the step dad doing his best Anthony Anderson from "Harold and Kumar go to Whitecastle" impression. That shop owner was definitely a minority, I wonder if he feels more wronged by the police who investigated the robbery that started this whole sad chapter or the horde of rioters who trashed his store.
To me this case has more to do with Police getting confrontational and a general atmosphere of distrust in the USA brought on by prevalent gun ownership. Young men don't trust Police, Police dont trust young men, the police are always armed and the young men are sometimes armed. The main thing that got reported by the media was White Cop Black Kid when if the confrontation was almost any other combination of races the story wouldn't have gone national but the main cause still would have been the same.

Yes, this case drew a ton of attention.

But in the month surrounding it, there were several other cases of police unnecessarily using deadly force on black men. Eric Garner, John Crawford, Michael Brown, etc. Garner and Brown may possibly have been criminals--but none of their crimes were worthy of being shot to death. John Crawford was a fully innocent man shopping at a Walmart, but some paranoid nutjob called the police because he was a black man with a weapon (a bb gun, in an open carry state). And then you have the 12 year old kid in Ohio who was gunned down by police just this week. Yes, the kid was aiming a BB gun--but somehow when in the same state you had a crazy old white guy aiming an actual loaded rifle at people, claiming something about a revolution, he managed to get away alive--and he got his weapon back.

Again, it's about the reaction to threats from white people vs. threats from black people. When it's a black person, police tend to justify excessive force, when it's a white person, they tend to err on the side of caution and ensure that they stay alive.

And if you can honestly look at the way this evidence was presented to the grand jury, it is painfully, disgustingly obvious that the prosecutor wasn't prosecuting at all. He was doing all he could to absolve himself of any responsibility. As a prosecuting attorney, had he been attempting to actually get to trial, he does not need to present evidence that might prove innocence. But he overwhelmed the jury with evidence, used outside sources, used the media, told the jury to do their own research about the evidence, etc. It was an entirely odd way to run the trial, and if you don't find that the least bit suspicious, then you're definitely pulling the wool over your eyes.

Again, the prosecuting attorney is on the board of directors for a fundraiser to protect Darren Wilson. How on earth do you really believe that he's presenting this case in an unbiased way?

[#-3]

I really feel like this is not going to improve until the "he said", "she said", "he got", "I got" stuff take a big shift towards personal accountability.

I will probably be accused of stereotyping here, and it is not that I believe all stereotypes hold true all of the time. But I do believe many of them exist for a reason, and it is probably that there is a disproportionate number of people from a group perpetuating those stereotypes.

Black people in America have to stop blaming the system for the 3x as many Black men in prison, and start wondering why it is so easy to catch Black people involved in criminal activity.

They need to stop wondering why they get tougher sentences, If they are convicted of a crime and there 5 other men in there family it is statistically likely that when leaving prison they will have close ties with another ex-convict. That type of culture typically breeds a tendency to re-offend. And likelihood of repeat offense is a common reason for longer sentences.

The need to stop dressing, acting, talking....... like thugs. It makes them look stupid (I'm sure many of them aren't), It scares people, and it makes them less employable (which causes crime).

there are allot of things white people need to do better, why do we tolerate intolerant people with our community. Why are we afraid of the 12 year old black kid with a BB Gun, and not the senile old guy with a shot gun, take the damned white hood off you are not protect anyone values you are an ignorant bigot hiding behind a mask. Many many other things....

and American Society as a whole needs to wonder how to improve gun policy, the economic gap, and the broke education system that pumps our under skilled college grads with massive debt loads.

Until everyone involved in still agrees they need to be better, this will not get better. I know the specific situation is vary sad for many people, be all of the false/skewed/bias testimony, the Prosecutor who did not believe his own case, the complaints and riots and media, will not make a difference until every side of this problems stands up and says "I need to be better"

[nik-]

Lol wow.

[rubecube]

nm

[rubecube]

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

This guy, according to the best witness there was, basically put someone's life in danger and died as a result.

Why is the guy who supported officer Wilson's testimony automatically the best witness?

[rubecube]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle21806395/

I'm certainly not a legal expert but how does this not sound really fishy if true?

As St. Louis County prosecutor, Mr. McCulloch could have laid charges himself. Instead, he chose to present evidence to an already empanelled grand jury which had been sitting before the shooting in Ferguson, Mo., that attracted international attention last summer. Usually a prosecutor presents only incriminating evidence against a potential criminal suspect, seeking to establish the sufficient cause not to convict but only to warrant the laying of charges.

Instead, Mr. McCulloch – whose impartiality has been questioned – took the unusual step of allowing Mr. Wilson to testify to the grand jury that Mr. Brown was trying to take his gun away and he feared for his life.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by #-3

I really feel like this is not going to improve until the "he said", "she said", "he got", "I got" stuff take a big shift towards personal accountability.

I will probably be accused of stereotyping here, and it is not that I believe all stereotypes hold true all of the time. But I do believe many of them exist for a reason, and it is probably that there is a disproportionate number of people from a group perpetuating those stereotypes.

Black people in America have to stop blaming the system for the 3x as many Black men in prison, and start wondering why it is so easy to catch Black people involved in criminal activity.

They need to stop wondering why they get tougher sentences, If they are convicted of a crime and there 5 other men in there family it is statistically likely that when leaving prison they will have close ties with another ex-convict. That type of culture typically breeds a tendency to re-offend. And likelihood of repeat offense is a common reason for longer sentences.

The need to stop dressing, acting, talking....... like thugs. It makes them look stupid (I'm sure many of them aren't), It scares people, and it makes them less employable (which causes crime).

there are allot of things white people need to do better, why do we tolerate intolerant people with our community. Why are we afraid of the 12 year old black kid with a BB Gun, and not the senile old guy with a shot gun, take the damned white hood off you are not protect anyone values you are an ignorant bigot hiding behind a mask. Many many other things....

and American Society as a whole needs to wonder how to improve gun policy, the economic gap, and the broke education system that pumps our under skilled college grads with massive debt loads.

Until everyone involved in still agrees they need to be better, this will not get better. I know the specific situation is vary sad for many people, be all of the false/skewed/bias testimony, the Prosecutor who did not believe his own case, the complaints and riots and media, will not make a difference until every side of this problems stands up and says "I need to be better"

You could no appear more ignorant if you tried.

Infact, I'm wondering if this post is clever satire...

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Yes, this case drew a ton of attention.

But in the month surrounding it, there were several other cases of police unnecessarily using deadly force on black men. Eric Garner, John Crawford, Michael Brown, etc. Garner and Brown may possibly have been criminals--but none of their crimes were worthy of being shot to death.

Brown was not shot for robbing a store. He was shot for his assault of Wilson and then attempting to gain control of the officer's sidearm. If he had gotten control of the gun, what do you think he would have done with it?

Wilson didn't have a Taser, couldn't deploy OC spray in the car and there was no room to use his baton.

If Brown was white, he would have been shot as well.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Brown was not shot for robbing a store. He was shot for his assault of Wilson and then attempting to gain control of the officer's sidearm. If he had gotten control of the gun, what do you think he would have done with it?

Wilson didn't have a Taser, couldn't deploy OC spray in the car and there was no room to use his baton.

If Brown was white, he would have been shot as well.

Proof he tried to take his gun?

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Proof he tried to take his gun?

Wilson's testimony the Brown grabbed his gun, no dispute that there was an altercation in Wilson's SUV during which time Wilson's sidearm was drawn, Brown's DNA on the inside of the drivers door and the close contact wound to his hand.

The close contact wound to Brown's hand (complete with powder burns) doesn't give definitive proof, but seems to back up the other evidence. The only way you get a powder burn is if your hand is right by the muzzle at the time of discharge.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Wilson's testimony the Brown grabbed his gun, no dispute that there was an altercation in Wilson's SUV during which time Wilson's sidearm was drawn, Brown's DNA on the inside of the drivers door and the close contact wound to his hand.

The close contact wound to Brown's hand (complete with powder burns) doesn't give definitive proof, but seems to back up the other evidence. The only way you get a powder burn is if your hand is right by the muzzle at the time of discharge.

So you believe the cop's testimony without a question but the multiple eye witnesses are lying?

And if Brown did get shot in the cop car then it even looks worse for Wilson.

Man gets shot, runs away, then charges back at officer. That could be an onion news article heading.

[llwhiteoutll]

There is no dispute that there was an altercation at/in Wilson's vehicle. If Wilson was still partially in the car and couldn't get past Brown after he was struck, then his only option would be to draw his gun. Having the gun fire while two people are fighting over it isn't far fetched.

As for the other comment, multiple "eye witnesses" did recant and admit they were either repeating what they heard, only saw the aftermath or didn't see anything at all.

[FlamesAddiction]

The overall issue is way more complicated than any side gives it credit for. There is no doubt that the historical subjugation of black people by colonial white people has ripple effects felt today, and there is no doubt that generally speaking, more white people are in a better position today than their African brothers because of it. I don't see how anyone can dispute that. Heck, if you want to be really specific, white anglo protestants are probably better positioned than whites of other pedigrees because of historical forms of discrimination.

But white people are not to blame for all the woes of individual African Americans. In this particular situation, it sounds to me like 2 bad guys (one white and one black) crossed paths and as a result, one ended up dead.

[burn_this_city]

The Tamir Rice killing this week seems a lot worse in my eyes than the Mike Brown shooting. Rookie cop shoots a 12 year old kid less than 2 seconds after arriving on the scene.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

There is no dispute that there was an altercation at/in Wilson's vehicle. If Wilson was still partially in the car and couldn't get past Brown after he was struck, then his only option would be to draw his gun. Having the gun fire while two people are fighting over it isn't far fetched.

As for the other comment, multiple "eye witnesses" did recant and admit they were either repeating what they heard, only saw the aftermath or didn't see anything at all.

This completely ignores Dorian Johnson's testimony which is backed up by the same evidence you're referring to but suggests that Wilson instigated the scuffle, something he would have had a better angle to see than any of the other witnesses.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

So you believe the cop's testimony without a question but the multiple eye witnesses are lying?

And if Brown did get shot in the cop car then it even looks worse for Wilson.

Man gets shot, runs away, then charges back at officer. That could be an onion news article heading.

A major issue is that the "multiple eye witnesses" are not proving reliable. Their stories are all over the place. They are admitting that they are parroting stories from other witnesses. The stories from the witnesses are very different.

I have no idea what actually happened, but this is not a case of multiple eye witnesses being sure on something. There's a lot more confusion here.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

A major issue is that the "multiple eye witnesses" are not proving reliable. Their stories are all over the place. They are admitting that they are parroting stories from other witnesses. The stories from the witnesses are very different.

I have no idea what actually happened, but this is not a case of multiple eye witnesses being sure on something. There's a lot more confusion here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/suzan-...b_4235194.html

Eye witness accounts can be totally unreliable. Everyone has a natural bias based on their own experiences and it affects how they perceive things.