Police shooting of unarmed teen leads to protests and Riot

[Fozzie_DeBear]

This incident is only the most recent example of a underlying cultural minefield...

Its going to get worse before it gets better...

[DuffMan]

Ted Nugent


19 hrs ·

Here's the lessons from Ferguson America- Don't let your kids growup to be thugs who think they can steal, assault & attack cops as a way of life & badge of black (dis)honor. Don't preach your racist bull#### "no justice no peace" as blabbered by Obama's racist Czar Al Not So Sharpton & their black klansmen. When a cop tells you to get out of the middle of the street, obey him & don't attack him as brainwashed by the gangsta #######s you hang with & look up to. It's that simple unless you have no brains, no soul, no sense of decency whatsoever. And dont claim that "black lives matter" when you ignore the millions you abort & slaughter each & every day by other blacks. Those of us with a soul do indeed believe black lives matter, as all lives matter. So quit killin each other you ####in idiots. Drive safely.

[Puppet Guy]

^ Ted Nugent should just shut the &*%$ up.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Seriously, do some reading yourself. All of your questions can be answered with 20 minutes of research and I'm confident all of those answers can be found in the past 10 pages of this thread and the links provided.

Cheer up, its a forum full of questions - I asked 2 questions in the post and was not able to find the answers scanning through previous posts.... If it was so obvious, show me where:
Question 1 was why were things handled so differently in this case and question 2 was a spin off of the first question asking if the whole purpose of the jury was to decide on 1 thing - was there probable cause.
- Browns family being told they would be the first to hear that a decision was reached yet media informed them
- The announcement that they had their answer but waiting 7 hours to put it to the public which simply allowed for hundreds to gather in the dark vs the 10 people outside the courthouse when they had their answer.
- The fact the NY times announced to the world before the prosecutor as they simply checked to see if Wilson was classified as a wanted man at the time they had a decision.

Then I thought the whole plan for rioting was terrible.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

No not at all.
...

I know that as a white middle aged man this is easy for me to say,

...

Wait... what?!?

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Puppet Guy

^ Ted Nugent should just shut the &*%$ up.

what, he's representative of the logical, level headed, pro 2A gun toting, anti government American all the sane right wingers can look up to.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Forget Cat Scratch Fever, the Nuge appears to have Bat #### Fever.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

He needs to explain how it went down and why he felt like he needed to continue to fire his weapon at this guy.

What's the seemingly huge fascination with the number of rounds fired? It's not like police procedure is some giant mystery.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

What's the seemingly huge fascination with the number of rounds fired? It's not like police procedure is some giant mystery.

Because the ignorant and those trying to prove a point actually think a cop should be able to take someone down with a single shot that just grazes the leg.

Police are trained to aim for the centre of the body mass and to keep shooting until the threat is over. If that means six bullets, that means six bullets.

The question of how many times Wilson shot Brown is completely irrelevant to me. The one that matters is whether the shooting was warranted at all - i.e.: whether Brown actually represented an imminent threat to Wilson. I tend to think not, but that question has been muddied beyond hope of ever unraveling, unfortunately.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

What's the seemingly huge fascination with the number of rounds fired? It's not like police procedure is some giant mystery.

I agree.

[rubecube]

Well I spent two hours reading Dorian Johnson's grand jury testimony, and it's absolutely harrowing. Also, the tone of the cross-examination by some of the jurors pretty much demonstrates that some of them had already made up their minds on the case.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

I disagree. I think getting Wilson's first hand account out there will go a long way to calming things down. He needs to explain how it went down and why he felt like he needed to continue to fire his weapon at this guy.

It's why I said it seems like it could be a big mistake - depending on how ABC/Stephanopoulos handle it. I would hope it's not CNN/Blitzer style asshattery because if it is, then I think it could make things worse. I *hope* it is handled well and helps to calm #### down.

[taco.vidal]

Why do you believe that Wilson did not see Brown as an imminent threat?

How do you believe Brown approached Wilson?

Do you think he changed his behaviour that he exhibited to the shop owner?

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Because the ignorant and those trying to prove a point actually think a cop should be able to take someone down with a single shot that just grazes the leg.

Police are trained to aim for the centre of the body mass and to keep shooting until the threat is over. If that means six bullets, that means six bullets.

The question of how many times Wilson shot Brown is completely irrelevant to me. The one that matters is whether the shooting was warranted at all - i.e.: whether Brown actually represented an imminent threat to Wilson. I tend to think not, but that question has been muddied beyond hope of ever unraveling, unfortunately.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

At some point, if the black community should probably wise up a little and stop spending so much time feeling victimized, and start figuring out a way to try to influence positive change. In my state, Virginia, I believe a black person is about 17 times more likely than a white person to commit a robbery and about 8 times more likely to commit a homicide. Blacks are also far more likely to be victims of these crimes as well. So every day there are black people killing other black people that goes unnoticed and white people killing black people is a pretty rare occurrence. In terms of saving black peoples lives, the much lower hanging fruit is to get black people to stop killing other black people.

I'd assume if the black crime rates went down, that confrontations with police officers would go down too. I don't even know that it is a white police officer thing. Because I've known black police officers here to be pretty racist and profiling against segments of the black population.

White people definitely deserve a lot of the blame for how things all got this way. But focusing on guys like Wilson is not going to touch any of the root causes. Burning down their own communities is also not going to make things better.

I just...ugh. It's really not even worth debating this level of ignorance.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

At some point, if the black community should probably wise up a little and stop spending so much time feeling victimized, and start figuring out a way to try to influence positive change. In my state, Virginia, I believe a black person is about 17 times more likely than a white person to commit a robbery and about 8 times more likely to commit a homicide. Blacks are also far more likely to be victims of these crimes as well. So every day there are black people killing other black people that goes unnoticed and white people killing black people is a pretty rare occurrence. In terms of saving black peoples lives, the much lower hanging fruit is to get black people to stop killing other black people.

I'd assume if the black crime rates went down, that confrontations with police officers would go down too. I don't even know that it is a white police officer thing. Because I've known black police officers here to be pretty racist and profiling against segments of the black population.

White people definitely deserve a lot of the blame for how things all got this way. But focusing on guys like Wilson is not going to touch any of the root causes. Burning down their own communities is also not going to make things better.

What compete ignorance.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I just...ugh. It's really not even worth debating this level of ignorance.

The definition of "ignorance" is lacking in knowledge or information... I'm curious as to what fantasyland you and Arya Stark live in that black on black crime is not a serious problem in the United States.

I'd be interested in seeing both of you argue this post, given that nothing in it is false.

Originally Posted by nfotiu

At some point, if the black community should probably wise up a little and stop spending so much time feeling victimized, and start figuring out a way to try to influence positive change.

Sounds like a good plan. I just watched a video of Brown's stepfather standing on the top of a car, essentially inciting the riot by repeatedly screaming "burn this bitch down". nfotiu shame on you for being so ignorant as to think black people feel victimized.

Originally Posted by nfotiu

In my state, Virginia, I believe a black person is about 17 times more likely than a white person to commit a robbery and about 8 times more likely to commit a homicide. Blacks are also far more likely to be victims of these crimes as well. So every day there are black people killing other black people that goes unnoticed and white people killing black people is a pretty rare occurrence. In terms of saving black peoples lives, the much lower hanging fruit is to get black people to stop killing other black people.

Shame on you nfotiu, for acknowledging the fact that black on black crime is a serious problem in the United States. Nobody with half a brain would argue this point.



Hey guys, look! Looks like there's a ton of black people in jail relative to their percentage of the total population! Almost as if what nofotiu just said is fact.

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I'd assume if the black crime rates went down, that confrontations with police officers would go down too.

I suppose this is not fact, but it seems like a completely rational assumption to me based on common sense and not ignorance, given that the job of police is to respond to crime. I'd go as far as to say... if you disagree with this particular point, you are either extremely pessimistic or racist if you think that less crime would not lead to a decrease in police interactions with black people, given that the vast majority of police officers are not racist and that many black people do not like the police.

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Burning down their own communities is also not going to make things better.

This also seems like a reasonable thing to say, given the photographs I saw of black store owners in tears because rioters destroyed their property. Doesn't seem helpful.

So again I ask, what exactly in nfotiu's post was ignorant?

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I just...ugh. It's really not even worth debating this level of ignorance.

I grew up in Canada and I can pretty confidently say that you can't fully understand how complicated race relations are until you've lived in a city in the southern US.

But yeah I'm the one who is ignorant about the subject.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

Why do you believe that Wilson did not see Brown as an imminent threat?

I didn't say that Wilson did not see Brown as an imminent threat. I said that my view is Brown probably wasn't an imminent threat. i.e.: deadly force likely was not necessary. Wilson obviously saw him as a threat, though god only knows if it was "crap, he's big" or "crap, he's black" or something else. Or whether the fact that a militarized police force tends to treat everyone as an imminent and deadly threat

How do you believe Brown approached Wilson?

Do you think he changed his behaviour that he exhibited to the shop owner?

I'm not sure what point you think you are making introducing a red herring fallacy by trying to imply that what someone does against a small, unarmed shop owner during a robbery and what that person might do against an armed officer would be the same.

[fatso]

honest question.

How come when the criminal and victim are black, it is "black on black" crime? Is there an unspoken presumption that blacks are racially targeting only other blacks that I am unaware of? Why isn't it just crime like with whites (I've never heard of "white on white" crime)?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by fatso

honest question.

How come when the criminal and victim are black, it is "black on black" crime? Is there an unspoken presumption that blacks are racially targeting only other blacks that I am unaware of? Why isn't it just crime like with whites (I've never heard of "white on white" crime)?

Because the riots are because the cop was white and black on black crime is just swept under the rug and they don't seem to care about it.