Police shooting of unarmed teen leads to protests and Riot

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Update.



http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/11/us/fer...ses/index.html




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5801330.html

Wow, that's sounds like a game changer. Isn't this huge news? I guess maybe it's just on Calgarypuck that the story has kind of died. Is this update big in the States?

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Wow, that's sounds like a game changer. Isn't this huge news? I guess maybe it's just on Calgarypuck that the story has kind of died. Is this update big in the States?

I don't know about other folks...but there's little that can be said about this case now that isn't emotional in nature instead of factual. We pretty much have to see how things turn out. Right now pretty much everyone has said their piece, and it remains to be seen how it ends up. Even in one of those articles, it notes that there is so much "evidence" now that it could take a grand jury months to review it all.

For my part, I kind of wonder how this video appeared now (month and change later), and why the people in it gave it to CNN instead of the prosecution/lawyers? Also, it shows witness reactions, which, while they have some value (if you believe it shows the reactions to that shooting, and not another police incident, there is actually some doubt about that) are difficult to consider as 'good' evidence. It's basically more evidence (if you believe it to be related to the shooting) for the GJ to consider...and doesn't really change anyone who's not on the GJ opinion one way or another.

[PIMking]

also didn't CNN doctor some of the zimmerman audio to make it sound like he said the Nbomb? I wouldn't put it past them to do it again to get their ratings across.

Still looks like the case of wrong place wrong time for both. Cop didn't know he just robbed the gas station and Brown didn't know the cop didn't know and tried to fight. Either way neither is right and the cop sure as hell isn't right.

[AcGold]

So:

-Cop confronts Brown
-Brown resists
-Brown runs away
-Cop shoots Brown once
-Brown tries to surrender
-Cop kills brown

Is that the gist of it? I tried to stay away from the thread as it's so polarizing.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

I don't know about other folks...but there's little that can be said about this case now that isn't emotional in nature instead of factual. We pretty much have to see how things turn out. Right now pretty much everyone has said their piece, and it remains to be seen how it ends up. Even in one of those articles, it notes that there is so much "evidence" now that it could take a grand jury months to review it all.

For my part, I kind of wonder how this video appeared now (month and change later), and why the people in it gave it to CNN instead of the prosecution/lawyers? Also, it shows witness reactions, which, while they have some value (if you believe it shows the reactions to that shooting, and not another police incident, there is actually some doubt about that) are difficult to consider as 'good' evidence. It's basically more evidence (if you believe it to be related to the shooting) for the GJ to consider...and doesn't really change anyone who's not on the GJ opinion one way or another.

The Grand Jury will have until October to here all the evidence . All hearsay evidence is allowed as well.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by AcGold

So:

-Cop confronts Brown
-Brown resists (the extent depends on who you listen to)
-Brown runs away
-Cop shoots Brown once
-Brown tries to surrender
-Cop kills brown

Is that the gist of it? I tried to stay away from the thread as it's so polarizing.

That's one gist of it. The other goes like this:

Cop confronts Brown
Brown resists
Brown runs away
Cop shoots once at Brown (missing him)
Brown turns around

Now here's where it comes down to a 'who do you believe' part.

Brown puts his hands up and surrenders...cop shoots and kills him
Brown puts his hands up then charges at the cop who shoots and kills him

What you believe happened depends on who you listen to and what you believe...and as with most things, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

[AcGold]

I've only heard the eyewitnesses saying he tried to surrender. Are there other eyewitnesses saying he charged? I never heard that version.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by PIMking

also didn't CNN doctor some of the zimmerman audio to make it sound like he said the Nbomb? I wouldn't put it past them to do it again to get their ratings across.

Wow. Seriously? If they did that then they are terrible. I googled it but couldn't find anything to back it up. Whaddya got on this? That'd be a big deal, so I'm sure you wouldn't just make it up and then say that they are doing it again in this case.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by AcGold

So:

-Cop confronts Brown
-Brown resists
-Brown runs away
-Cop shoots Brown once
-Brown tries to surrender
-Cop kills brown

Is that the gist of it? I tried to stay away from the thread as it's so polarizing.

Not really. more like.

-Cop confronts Brown
-Brown resists
-Brown runs away
-Cop shoots at Brown 6 times
-Brown tries to surrender
-Cop murders Brown with 4 more shots (finally gets a good headshot)

If officer Darren Wilson gets away with this the next protests will make the first ones look like a sunday school walkathon.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by AcGold

I've only heard the eyewitnesses saying he tried to surrender. Are there other eyewitnesses saying he charged? I never heard that version.

The cop says that he charged. In the audio of one of the videos from a witness (who said he was trying to surrender), you can hear voices in the background saying that Brown charged at him.

The "eyewitness" (there was only one, I think, everyone else didn't see the incident, just the aftermath) has been discredited already, as he said that the cop shot brown in the back...but multiple autopsy's have shown that while he was shot 6 times, not one bullet entered his body from the rear. 4 entered in the arm, 2 in the head, in a manner which could be consistent with someone charging at the person with the gun.

It's a crazy case, and it's why most people (now that the emotions have cooled some) are willing to wait to see what evidence we get to see before going one way or the other.

It's also a completely separate incident from how the police handled the issue/protesters post-incident, which could, at its charitable best, be described as "pouring fuel on a fire".

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Wow. Seriously? If they did that then they are terrible. I googled it but couldn't find anything to back it up. Whaddya got on this? That'd be a big deal, so I'm sure you wouldn't just make it up and then say that they are doing it again in this case.

IIRC, it wasn't doctoring, per se...it was very careful editing of the actual 911 tape to make it sound like Zimmerman brought up race, when instead the first time he made any reference to race was when he answered a direction question from the 911 operator. They didn't change or add anything...they were just really careful with what they played of the audio.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Wow. Seriously? If they did that then they are terrible. I googled it but couldn't find anything to back it up. Whaddya got on this? That'd be a big deal, so I'm sure you wouldn't just make it up and then say that they are doing it again in this case.

I thought it was CNN, maybe MSNBC but they doctored the audio to "g'damn n(bomb) always get away with it" to make it look like he was a racist.

It's just suspicious that this video took over a month to come out and it went to CNN not the state

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

IIRC, it wasn't doctoring, per se...it was very careful editing of the actual 911 tape to make it sound like Zimmerman brought up race, when instead the first time he made any reference to race was when he answered a direction question from the 911 operator. They didn't change or add anything...they were just really careful with what they played of the audio.

There we go..

Thanks for explaining it

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by PIMking

There we go..

Thanks for explaining it

I remember it being a 'big thing' because the only reason it was caught was because the full transcript of the 911 call was released later. It was when folks started comparing the audio that the news outlet (I honestly can't remember which one) released vs the transcript that people started noticing that things didn't add up.

[combustiblefuel]

Although, Brown was not shot in the back does not mean shots were not fired.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

That's such a cliche.

The truth quite often does not lie anywhere close to the middle. To me it seems unlikely that it's be somewhere in the middle here.

Either Brown was aggressive or he was not. Theoretically there are options in between, but saying that they are the probable truth is just false.

[nik-]

It seems like once that cop drew the gun, he had decided to kill him regardless of the need to. Just because you don't want to chase someone, doesn't mean you can just murder them.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Update.



http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/11/us/fer...ses/index.html




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5801330.html

This makes it all too clear. Cop shoots Brown possibly out of fear (we will never truly know), but then he hits him, Brown starts to surrender and the cop decides to pump him full of lead. The bullet from the top of the head was likely from when he was falling ( no longer a threat) or from when he fell on the ground (no threat at all).

I can't see any scenario with the evidence and the eye witnesses where the cop is not guilty of some sort of crime.

[rubecube]

Does anyone else find the idea that an unarmed man would willfully charge towards someone aiming a gun at him completely absurd?

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by T@T

-Cop confronts Brown
-Brown resists
-Brown runs away
-Cop shoots at Brown 6 times
-Brown tries to surrender
-Cop murders Brown with 4 more shots (finally gets a good headshot)

It depends what 'resists' means. Did Brown assault the officer after being questioned by the officer?