Police shooting of unarmed teen leads to protests and Riot

[Canuck-Hater]

As I understand Brown was fleeing and then stopped with his hands up, turned, and was shot 3 more times? Do I have that right?

This is how Brown's friend, Dorian Johnson describes the incident: "As we took off running, I ducked and hid for my life, because I was fearing for my life. And I hid by the first car that I saw. My friend, he kept running, and he told me to keep running, because he feared for me, too. So, as he was running, the officer was trying to get out of the car. And once he got out the car, he pursued my friend, but his weapon was drawn. Now, he didn’t see any weapon drawn at him or anything like that, us going for no weapon. His weapon was already drawn when he got out the car. He shot again. And once my friend felt that shot, he turned around, and he put his hands in the air, and he started to get down. But the officer still approached with his weapon drawn, and he fired several more shots. And my friend died. He didn’t say anything to him. He just stood over, and he was shooting. By then, I was so afraid for my life, I just—I got up, and I ran."

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/1...brown_missouri

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

What eye witness was this? Was it one who had already said he appeared to be shot in the back or a new one who's story is plausible with the new information? And if so, why wasn't that account being reported on prior?

I've got to laugh at how you keep claiming you're impartial yet you continue to disregard anything that doesn't fit your narrative.

You made up your mind as you soon as the video from the convenience store was released.

[photon]

Originally Posted by neo45

To be fair it was the guy who did the autopsy report who mentioned that it was possible Brown was charging the police officer because his head was down

How else does someone sprint forward? By leaning back?

He also could have been falling forward when shot in the top of the head. The autopsy just adds ammo to both sides

The head is only down for a bit when the acceleration is enough to offset the centre of gravity not being over the feet, otherwise even Olympic sprinters run most of the race vertically.

And it's not like he's going to go into a sprinter's stance with blocks to charge a cop.

But I'd agree, the top of the head could be a lucky shot right at the start, but could also be a lucky shot as he's falling from being shot elsewhere. The angle of the body shots would be relevant, if the head shot was first then he's going to fall forward from an already forward lean.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Actually there was. One person called into a radio show, so take that for what it's worth but I believe was adamant that there would be no shots in the back. While another person can be heard in a video (the one that shows the body) telling another individual that Michael just kept charging (also in the video you can hear people say he was shot in the back/surrending) so take that for what it's worth too. But you would think the police would have mentioned it if Michael Brown was charging at the officer so something still doesn't add up

I think what you have is a pretty inept police department when it comes to PR and procedures. They are still going to be in the midst of an investigation and normally they aren't going to say anything at all. In this case given what is happening they should likely be more forthcoming and they have been compared to normal cases.

Unfortunately the ineptness of the department has resulted in the unnecessary convolution of the situation. Had they simply stuck to the facts it would have helped. Instead they created the whole the officer was looking for him because of the cigar theft storyline which, intentionally or not, cast the kid as a hooligan. He might well have been but it had no bearing on why the officer talked to him and instead made it seem like they department was circling the wagons (which they may have been). Lack of transparency and sticking to the facts made a debacle of the situation.

In all likelihood it was a "good" shooting as they usually are. But the department created the debacle following the incident (and it started by not covering the body and letting it lay there for hours).

The populace itself of course hasn't helped and since the first minute has been emphasizing white cop, black youth. Now if they have some information on this cop that he was known to harass black youth then I can see that, but I haven't seen any suggestion of that since the officer was named.

[Aeneas]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I've got to laugh at how you keep claiming you're impartial yet you continue to disregard anything that doesn't fit your narrative.

You made up your mind as you soon as the video from the convenience store was released.

I think you should take a look at many of the posts on the first three pages. There you will find plenty of people who have no need of facts.

I think Oling_Roachinen's posts have been the most intelligent of the thread.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

As I understand Brown was fleeing and then stopped with his hands up, turned, and was shot 3 more times? Do I have that right?

Considering we have 2 shots in the head and 4 in the arm (which I would assume are in a grouping), probably not. It will be intersting to find out if the arm shots are on the inside of the arms as if he had his arms raised up by his head or if they are on the outside, which would point to arms down.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I've got to laugh at how you keep claiming you're impartial yet you continue to disregard anything that doesn't fit your narrative.

You made up your mind as you soon as the video from the convenience store was released.

I asked him which eye witness and he responded with a reasonable answer... Just staying informed. Looking too deep into things there. Going to be mad that I responded to the question of who was saying he was charging too? I said take it for what it's worth but they exist.

I do admit that I've shown some bias here and you could probably dissect some other posts of mine but that post was just asking a question

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

And once my friend felt that shot, he turned around, and he put his hands in the air, and he started to get down. But the officer still approached with his weapon drawn, and he fired several more shots. And my friend died. He didn’t say anything to him. He just stood over, and he was shooting. By then, I was so afraid for my life, I just—I got up, and I ran."

That would imply at least one shot was from behind (or why else would he turn around after feeling it). Which doesn't seem to be the case.

But look in the mirror at yourself with your hands up and then down. The entry wounds would be in completely different places depending on the scenario wouldn't they? If the hands were up wounds to the arm ought to be on what we would call the back of the arm. if they were down it'd going to be in the front of the arm. And if they are in the front of the arm than the friends account really isn't a reliable one.

But I'm merely an internet forensics expert. Which means I know nothing at all and am more than likely talking out of my behind.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by nik-

This post is hilarious.

Lol at "likely charging" ... yes, charging the cop with a gun head down, because he's a Rhino.

Second, where are these eyewitnesses who said he charged the cops?

Third, the media doesn't need to create racial tension in the states. It's already there.

Here is one...

According to the account on KTFK, phoned in by a woman who identified herself as "Josie," the altercation began after Officer Darren Wilson rolled down his window to tell Brown and a friend to stop walking in the street.

When Wilson tried to get out of his cruiser, Brown first tried to push the officer back into the car, then punched him in the face and grabbed for his gun before breaking free after the gun went off once.

Wilson pursued Brown and his friend, ordering them to freeze, according to account. When they turned around, Brown began taunting Wilson, saying he would not arrest them, then ran at the officer at full speed, according to the caller.

Wilson then began shooting. The final shot was to Brown's forehead, and the teenager fell two or three feet in front of Wilson, the caller said

Eye witness recollection is horendous at the best of times. Which is why we are seeing such variance in the stories being retold.

The only way we find out the truth is to allow the forensics guys/gals do their thing completely. This wont happen in a week...in fact it could take months.

Hopefully the truth becomes apparent and absolute and the appropriate actions are taken against the officer or exonerating him entirely. It's the only way this thing doesnt escalate even more.

[Arya Stark]

I stopped reading after "phoned in by a woman who identified herself as Josie"

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

I stopped reading after "phoned in by a woman who identified herself as Josie"

why out of curiosity?

We know that the States especially has a lot of people that don't want to be identified.

I would think that especially in this situation in that town.

I don't think we can discredit any statements until forensics is done.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

why out of curiosity?

We know that the States especially has a lot of people that don't want to be identified.

I would think that especially in this situation in that town.

I don't think we can discredit any statements until forensics is done.

Because anonymous tips to a news station isn't reliable.

And before anyone asks, yes I would tend to believe or not discredit right away someone who actually comes on camera with their real name and a face and tells their story.

Any racist could have called in to try and paint a different picture to make Brown look bad and aggressive.

So yeah, lets wait for the evidence, but citing some anonymous "Josie" as someone who tells a different story is laughable and disingenuous ON tp99's part.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Because anonymous tips to a news station isn't reliable.

And before anyone asks, yes I would tend to believe or not discredit right away someone who actually comes on camera with their real name and a face and tells their story.

Any racist could have called in to try and paint a different picture to make Brown look bad and aggressive.

So yeah, lets wait for the evidence, but citing some anonymous "Josie" as someone who tells a different story is laughable and disingenuous ON tp99's part.

Soooo something like Crime Stoppers to you isn't reliable? Deep Throat was one of the greatest anonymous tipsters of all time who went straight to the media.

On your second part its a possibility, but its still something that needs to be looked at, you can't discredit something because it doesn't fit into your theory.

If its wild and doesn't fit with the forensics fine, but it has to be looked at as a possible theory.

Just like all of the other statements.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Because anonymous tips to a news station isn't reliable.

And before anyone asks, yes I would tend to believe or not discredit right away someone who actually comes on camera with their real name and a face and tells their story.

Any racist could have called in to try and paint a different picture to make Brown look bad and aggressive.

So yeah, lets wait for the evidence, but citing some anonymous "Josie" as someone who tells a different story is laughable and disingenuous ON tp99's part.

LOL!!!!

WTF do I have to do with it?

Its a story on CNN fer chrissakes.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/mis...html?hpt=hp_t1

Oh and as for the "any racist could have called that in" stuff....you are assuming it was a white person I assume...or a black racist? Fascinating.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Soooo something like Crime Stoppers to you isn't reliable?

On your second part its a possibility, but its still something that needs to be looked at, you can't discredit something because it doesn't fit into your theory.

If its wild and doesn't fit with the forensics fine, but it has to be looked at as a possible theory.

Just like all of the other statements.

Really, Crime Stoppers? What a terrible example. A tip is still a tip until the police investigate and verify the tip.

An anonymous tip to a radio station is not verified nor is it scrutinized in the same way a tip to crime stoppers is.


As for your last statement, do you really think the police weren't looking at every possible theory and this chick made them investigate another theory that wasn't already being looked at? Of course one of the first theories you investigate is whether he was charging the officer. This lady's theory didn't help anything but fulfil her fantasy and desired air time. If she was being truthful, she would have nothing to hide and especially not call in anonymous to a radio station of all places.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by transplant99

LOL!!!!

WTF do I have to do with it?

Its a story on CNN fer chrissakes.

Oh and as for the "any racist could have called that in" stuff....you are assuming it was a white person I assume...or a black racist? Fascinating.

Um you are in a public forum and you quoted the article (without a link btw). You have everything to do with it when you reply to someone's post and post a snippet to an article.

And I am assuming nothing, just stating someone who is a racist would have the biggest motive to call in a lie to paint Brown in a bad light. Or I guess someone in law enforcement. Or even the accused officers own wife. That's why anonymous tips to radio station should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Um you are in a public forum and you quoted the article (without a link btw). You have everything to do with it when you reply to someone's post and post a snippet to an article.

Like i wrote that....anyone reading that would automatically know it was written elsewhere because it was in quotes...the link though forgotten was implied if not there. So how its ME being disingenuous is complete and utter BS, and you know it.

You are a piece of work and apparently a racist.

Well done.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Really, Crime Stoppers? What a terrible example. A tip is still a tip until the police investigate and verify the tip.

An anonymous tip to a radio station is not verified nor is it scrutinized in the same way a tip to crime stoppers is.

Interesting

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

As for your last statement, do you really think the police weren't looking at every possible theory and this chick made them investigate another theory that wasn't already being looked at? Of course one of the first theories you investigate is whether he was charging the officer. This lady's theory didn't help anything but fulfil her fantasy and desired air time. If she was being truthful, she would have nothing to hide and especially not call in anonymous to a radio station of all places.

I'm not really talking about the police, It just comes across when I read your reaction that your discounting it because of either its source, or because it doesn't fit your theory of what happened. You said yourself that you stopped reading it as soon as you saw the name and that its a radio tip. Is there the possibility that your doing some self filtering?

I don't know if I would be so willing to step forward in a town where there is a ton of violence and rioting going on, especially if my witness statement could be somewhat unpopular. Whichever side my witness statement goes to is probably the wrong side. I would be tempted to phone the press and let them disseminate it.

And what's with your snark towards T99, you seem to take little shots at every poster who goes against you. Its interesting.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Um you are in a public forum and you quoted the article (without a link btw). You have everything to do with it when you reply to someone's post and post a snippet to an article.

And I am assuming nothing, just stating someone who is a racist would have the biggest motive to call in a lie to paint Brown in a bad light. Or I guess someone in law enforcement. Or even the accused officers own wife. That's why anonymous tips to radio station should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Its not an "anonymous tip"...its an eyewitness recall like all the eyewitness recalls we have read. It was repeated on the radio station just like the ones repeated to the newspapers and such.

So...which eyewitness accounts are the ones we should trust? Im not sure anymore...just the ones that fit your narrative? Thought so.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Interesting




I'm not really talking about the police, It just comes across when I read your reaction that your discounting it because of either its source, or because it doesn't fit your theory of what happened. You said yourself that you stopped reading it as soon as you saw the name and that its a radio tip. Is there the possibility that your doing some self filtering?

I don't know if I would be so willing to step forward in a town where there is a ton of violence and rioting going on, especially if my witness statement could be somewhat unpopular. Whichever side my witness statement goes to is probably the wrong side. I would be tempted to phone the press and let them disseminate it.

And what's with your snark towards T99, you seem to take little shots at every poster who goes against you. Its interesting.

Ding ding ding!!!