So the guy who got shot did have a 3-inch knife on him, but is there not a way to subdue him without shooting him 16 times? Cop has been charged with murder.
Kind of reminds me of the Sammy Yatim shooting in Toronto. The trial is ongoing right now. The guy had a knife by was alone on a bus. The officer approached, then panicked and shot him 8 times. I get that there was a danger there, but there was no reason why they couldn't just stand down, give him space until he calmed down.
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The scariest thing is that such low lifes like this cop and the South Carolina cop earlier this year have repeated, documented instances of excessive force or straight up brutality, yet they keep them out on the street. This guy for instance did this a year ago so he might have been on the street for a whole other year, doing who knows what.
There's also the fact that such psychopaths are even allowed to meet the standards to become cops in the first place. Either the standards are too low or the training is simply abysmal. But it's ridiculous to think there are many more like this cop out there. There needs to be much more work being done to train cops on community policing and not the "Us vs. them" mentality that so many cops seem to have.
Often, officers removed from the job for public complaints or excessive force simply find work as police officers in other jurisdictions.
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A police officer who was hired by the city of Snoqualmie despite a history of excessive force has been placed on administrative leave and is under investigation by the department, according to city officials.
Snoqualmie will not specify the allegations that led them to pull Officer Nicholas Hogan off the streets; however, City Attorney Bob Sterbank says they do not involve the use of force there.
Hogan was placed on leave Oct. 5, Sterbank said.
He was hired by the city in January 2014 even though he was fired by the Tukwila Police Department in 2012 for aggressive street tactics and his apparent affiliation with the sometimes violent anti-drug “Straight Edge” movement.
Hogan’s commanders in Tukwila were concerned he was targeting intoxicated African-American men and was too quick to resort to force, generating complaints from citizens and fellow officers. Court records indicate that Tukwila paid out more than $425,000 to settle lawsuits filed by citizens against Hogan and the department.
Snoqualmie hired Hogan from a group of several officers as it expanded its police force to take over providing public safety for neighboring North Bend, which until last year was covered by the King County Sheriff’s Office.
Snoqualmie said it chose Hogan from a trio of candidates and said he was fully vetted and passed a lie-detector test. Mayor Matthew Larson said in a statement that the department was “aware of allegations” concerning Hogan when he was hired in 2014.
Tukwila police Cmdr. Eric Drever said Snoqualmie contacted his agency about Hogan, and reviewed his personnel file. However, he said there was no indication that anybody from Snoqualmie requested or reviewed extensive internal-affairs investigations Tukwila had conducted before firing him.
“I do not see how any department would hire him with that knowledge,” Drever said.
Sterbank, however, said Snoqualmie Police Chief Steve McCulley spoke “off the record with multiple Tukwila command-level individuals, who both spoke favorably of Hogan and indicated their belief that he had been unfairly treated by the City of Tukwila and deserved an opportunity with another law-enforcement agency.”
More than 1,000 pages of Tukwila internal-affairs documents obtained by The Seattle Times revealed Hogan used force more than any other officer on the 60-man Tukwila force.
The scariest thing is that such low lifes like this cop and the South Carolina cop earlier this year have repeated, documented instances of excessive force or straight up brutality, yet they keep them out on the street. This guy for instance did this a year ago so he might have been on the street for a whole other year, doing who knows what
He's also had a long history of crazy...
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According to a freedom of information request by the Chicago Tribune, the veteran officer has had at least 15 complaints filed against him while working in high-crime neighborhoods, for accusations including using racial epithets and pointing a gun at an arrestee without justification.
In 2007, the officer was involved in a traffic stop in which he and his partner were found to have used excessive force on a man with no prior convictions, leading to a $350,000 award for damages in the case, the Tribune reported
I heard more than forty complaints on cnn. Not sure how many it takes to get someone fired.
Looked like he was about 10-15 feet away and not staying still. Even without a cop having to unholster, the subject could make it to striking distance by the time the trigger is pulled once the cop realizes he's coming directly at him.
The officers actions once the subject was on the ground definitely need to be scrutinized kn court, but the initial use of force could be easily justified.
"At bond court, prosecutors said Van Dyke opened fire six seconds after exiting his squad car as McDonald was walking away from him at 41st Street and Pulaski Road"
I am not sure how you say initial use of force could easily justified.
I am not happy he was on desk duty and being paid by the City of Chicago for One Year after they had knowledge of the actions he took.
I could see one shot until the guy is down and neutralized. 15 more shots? That's a pretty easy murder conviction. The kid was just laying there and getting shot up, pretty disturbing.
I could see one shot until the guy is down and neutralized. 15 more shots? That's a pretty easy murder conviction. The kid was just laying there and getting shot up, pretty disturbing.
In general, police don't shoot once, they shoot until the subject no longer poses a treat. It might take one shot, it might take a dozen; there are no hard and fast rules on how many shots itbwill take to neutralize a threat. There have been plenty of cases where subjects have absorbed numerous rounds and kept on going. Drugs like PCP certainly add to this.
All there is is a video with no sound and a charge laid in a politically volatile case. The courts will have access to much more information that te general public and that's where this should be decided.
Yeah, I'm generally pretty agnostic about the "what's truly necessary" thing once the suspect has a weapon... it seems to me that there's basically a "this guy's dead" switch that gets flicked. Once they've decided to shoot a guy (and if he has a weapon and won't surrender, they're probably going to) they're never shooting to "neutralize".
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
CPD's original narrative was to let people believe that McDonald was shot only once. It wasn't until some journalists looked at the autopsy report and pressed to have the video released, that people realized he was shot 16 times. It's scary to think that if this journalist hadn't looked at the autopsy report, no charges would have been brought against Van Dyke.
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CPD's original narrative was to let people believe that McDonald was shot only once. It wasn't until some journalists looked at the autopsy report and pressed to have the video released, that people realized he was shot 16 times. It's scary to think that if this journalist hadn't looked at the autopsy report, no charges would have been brought against Van Dyke.
This is why I hate the "not all cops are bad" argument that gets brought out every time something like this happens. Sure not all cops are trigger happy murderers, but there's an entire system in place to ensure those who are don't face any discipline. How many officers were involved in destroying evidence when they wiped that security footage? How many people up the chain of command kept silent about this incident for over a year until a video finally surfaced? Police departments in the US act more like the mafia with their own omerta rather than law enforcement agencies
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I could see one shot until the guy is down and neutralized. 15 more shots? That's a pretty easy murder conviction. The kid was just laying there and getting shot up, pretty disturbing.
In a country where you can walk into a Burger King with an AR15 legally and the cops can't do a thing why the hell would you arrest a guy with a knife let alone shoot him? Jay walking's the only ticket I can see here.
In a country where you can walk into a Burger King with an AR15 legally and the cops can't do a thing why the hell would you arrest a guy with a knife let alone shoot him? Jay walking's the only ticket I can see here.
I disagree. He's clearly waking aggressively in the general direction of the police and pulls out a weapon. Police had also been called to the scene after a report that he'd threatened someone with the knife earlier. He had also supposedly slashed a police cars tire already (that is based on the word of police).
The initial shots are not at issue. It's what happened after. One of the officers unloaded his entire clip. There's also the issue of police tampering with investigations and evidence, which is huge.
We need to paint McDonald as a total innocent to see that there has clearly been some extremely serious wrongdoing by the police here. Even if the later video and audio footage does show that the police were correct in their use of force, if the reports of the police trying to get rid of footage or forge toxicology reports are true, that's a huge issue.
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I disagree. He's clearly waking aggressively in the general direction of the police and pulls out a weapon. Police had also been called to the scene after a report that he'd threatened someone with the knife earlier. He had also supposedly slashed a police cars tire already (that is based on the word of police).
The initial shots are not at issue. It's what happened after. One of the officers unloaded his entire clip. There's also the issue of police tampering with investigations and evidence, which is huge.
We need to paint McDonald as a total innocent to see that there has clearly been some extremely serious wrongdoing by the police here. Even if the later video and audio footage does show that the police were correct in their use of force, if the reports of the police trying to get rid of footage or forge toxicology reports are true, that's a huge issue.
No...he's surrounded by police cars and walking quickly in the direction of two of the officers with a knife in his hand. At the time he's shot he's 1 lane of traffic away from the officers (approximately 8-10 feet) with a clearly visible knife.
The police that shot him were not the first responders. He'd been directed by police multiple times to surrender.
Depicting this guy as a saint is a red herring. The police unloading an entire clip of bullets, shooting him on the ground, tampering with evidence, etc... is what needs to be investigated. By making the case that this guy was some kind of saint, you are giving ammunition and talking points to people who will want to distract from what the true issue is, the actions of the police officers.
No...he's surrounded by police cars and walking quickly in the direction of two of the officers with a knife in his hand. At the time he's shot he's 1 lane of traffic away from the officers (approximately 8-10 feet) with a clearly visible knife.
You mean, slowing down as he angled away from the cops?
Your statement about "walking aggressively" is just damn stupid. There's a reason people cringe when they see these kinds of clips. If he was wearing a polo shirt and khakis, he wouldn't have been shot. Your excuses are feeble.
Who tried to paint him as a saint? Just curios, as I'm only skimming bit didn't really see anything like that.
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Originally Posted by afc wimbledon
In a country where you can walk into a Burger King with an AR15 legally and the cops can't do a thing why the hell would you arrest a guy with a knife let alone shoot him? Jay walking's the only ticket I can see here.
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Originally Posted by Knalus
Is that because he's wearing a hoodie?
He's clearly doing more than Jaywalking in a hoodie.
You mean, slowing down as he angled away from the cops?
Your statement about "walking aggressively" is just damn stupid. There's a reason people cringe when they see these kinds of clips. If he was wearing a polo shirt and khakis, he wouldn't have been shot. Your excuses are feeble.
He jogging up to police cars as they arrive, removing a knife from his pocket. He then walks quickly up to them and stops about 8-10 feet away. He initially has his side to them, but turns towards them just before being shot.
Although his outfit and appearance may have resulted in prejudices against him resulting him being shot, he was clearly also doing something wrong. Also, keep in mind that these were not the first responders and the police officers had been called in response to him uttering threats with a knife at civilians.
He's clearly doing more than Jaywalking in a hoodie.
Not from the video evidence we can see. Nothing clear about it. Your repeated use of the word "clear" makes me think that it doesn't mean what you think it means.
He jogging up to police cars as they arrive, removing a knife from his pocket. He then walks quickly up to them and stops about 8-10 feet away. He initially has his side to them, but turns towards them just before being shot.
Although his outfit and appearance may have resulted in prejudices against him resulting him being shot, he was clearly also doing something wrong. Also, keep in mind that these were not the first responders and the police officers had been called in response to him uttering threats with a knife at civilians.
He's jogging till the police show up, at which point he slows down, angles away from them, and points in the direction he was going to go to. The only reason he's " 8 ft away" as you stated is because the police press forward.
Your interpretation of the video appears prejudiced.
He's jogging till the police show up, at which point he slows down, angles away from them, and points in the direction he was going to go to. The only reason he's " 8 ft away" as you stated is because the police press forward.
Your interpretation of the video appears prejudiced.
As soon as the police stopped he pulls out a knife and purposely displays it and then continues in their direction.
But sure call me "prejudiced". I'm not even defending the police here. I think they were in the wrong, and if they covered anything up, as alleged, they should all spend the rest of their lives in jail.
I will admit that without audio, you cannot tell conclusively whether he turned to them or was shot first. Either way, the correct response to police arriving on the scene is not to pull out a knife.
