This is why these threads get annoying. You try to explain something to somebody and they keep telling you why you're wrong.
*sigh*... Yes, it is annoying when people keep telling you you're wrong. Yessiree, it suuuure is...
Look, I'll belabour my point here and then I'll mention it no more.
It's absolutely silly to me that you'd dogmatically cling to some Alberta Transportation document published annually to tell you what a road is called by extrapolating from a length figure, and completely misses what Shazam was getting at in the first place.
This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acey
The lack of highway 8 shields on Stoney is not evidence that the road is not highway 8.
Is epistemological nonsense.
But whatever, I get that you'll stick to that extrapolation from this AT document. Fine. However, for those of us who don't keep a copy of it handy in our cars' glove boxes, it's irrelevant. For those of us in the real world: the signs say Stoney Trail SW/201, therefore that's what it's called.
I'm getting persnickety about it because I have already had to deal with the confusion over this in the real world: my parents—a legally blind man giving directions to a woman who cannot deal in abstractions like "it's Highway 8 even if it doesn't say it's Highway 8"—got completely turned around the first time they tried to take westbound Glenmore to Discovery Ridge. My dad needed to go to a jobsite, my mother was driving him, and like an Abbott and Costello routine he told her: "Keep going on Highway 8."
"... There is no Highway 8."
"What do you mean there's no Highway 8? Take Highway 8!"
"There is no Highway 8! Which way do I go?!"
"Take the lane that says 'to Highway 8'!"
"There is no Highway 8!"
Etc. They ended up on southbound Stoney and turned around on 90th Avenue. (They had no idea they could have turned around on Tsuut'ina Parkway either...) He didn't realize there was no Highway 8 shield anymore and couldn't see that was the case. She couldn't intuit that he meant "go westbound on the same route that Highway 8 used to go".
Whether there is an "unsigned concurrency" there or not because of a length figure on an Alberta Transportation document, it's not relevant to real world driving. The answer to Shazam's original question is: no, drivers will not take Highway 8 to connect from the West leg of the ringroad @ ~101st Street to the Southwest leg at Sarcee Trail. If they follow the signs for Highway 8 they'll end up going to Bragg Creek. Rather, drivers will stay on Stoney Trail SW/Highway 201, because that's what the new road is called now.
I'm sure this is frustratingly inaccurate to you because teeeeeeechnically it'll also be an unsigned concurrency with Highway 8, so teeeeeeechnically it's not incorrect to say drivers would be taking Highway 8 too. But I'm trying to politely tell you, in the only way I can in this communication medium: that doesn't matter, and it'll just confuse people if you keep calling it Highway 8. This does not mean I think you're stupid, or don't know what you're talking about, or that I'm trying to pick a fight with you. I like you, you're a bright fella.
I appreciate your contributions in this thread and elsewhere, and I'm looking forward to more updates as the West ringroad projects are completed.
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^its more the arrogance of repeating "weird take" repeatedly that I was commenting on. It wasn't a "take" it was a fact. Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acey
This is why these threads get annoying. You try to explain something to somebody and they keep telling you why you're wrong.
I've said it a lot recently, in the roads thread and during the last Police car debate, but people's preconceived notions about these topics seem to count for more than actual first hand experience. It's infuriating and one of the main reasons I stopped working for the city, everyone's an expert, and even when you're 100% correct, you're still wrong
Last edited by btimbit; 10-09-2021 at 01:08 PM.
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Lately the south ringroad has been a breeze up until the bridge construction near Cranston. During rush hour I am guessing that is the main pinch point. I wish that would be done next year
I get it. Currently it's officially Highway 8, there's signs that indicate otherwise, it'll be renamed officially eventually if it already hasn't, eventually the bureaucracy will receive some forms in triplicate outlining said change.
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... Yes, it is annoying when people keep telling you you're wrong. Yessiree, it suuuure is...
Look, I'll belabour my point here and then I'll mention it no more.
It's absolutely silly to me that you'd dogmatically cling to some Alberta Transportation document published annually to tell you what a road is called by extrapolating from a length figure, and completely misses what Shazam was getting at in the first place.
This:
Is epistemological nonsense.
But whatever, I get that you'll stick to that extrapolation from this AT document. Fine. However, for those of us who don't keep a copy of it handy in our cars' glove boxes, it's irrelevant. For those of us in the real world: the signs say Stoney Trail SW/201, therefore that's what it's called.
I'm getting persnickety about it because I have already had to deal with the confusion over this in the real world: my parents—a legally blind man giving directions to a woman who cannot deal in abstractions like "it's Highway 8 even if it doesn't say it's Highway 8"—got completely turned around the first time they tried to take westbound Glenmore to Discovery Ridge. My dad needed to go to a jobsite, my mother was driving him, and like an Abbott and Costello routine he told her: "Keep going on Highway 8."
"... There is no Highway 8."
"What do you mean there's no Highway 8? Take Highway 8!"
"There is no Highway 8! Which way do I go?!"
"Take the lane that says 'to Highway 8'!"
"There is no Highway 8!"
Etc. They ended up on southbound Stoney and turned around on 90th Avenue. (They had no idea they could have turned around on Tsuut'ina Parkway either...) He didn't realize there was no Highway 8 shield anymore and couldn't see that was the case. She couldn't intuit that he meant "go westbound on the same route that Highway 8 used to go".
Whether there is an "unsigned concurrency" there or not because of a length figure on an Alberta Transportation document, it's not relevant to real world driving. The answer to Shazam's original question is: no, drivers will not take Highway 8 to connect from the West leg of the ringroad @ ~101st Street to the Southwest leg at Sarcee Trail. If they follow the signs for Highway 8 they'll end up going to Bragg Creek. Rather, drivers will stay on Stoney Trail SW/Highway 201, because that's what the new road is called now.
I'm sure this is frustratingly inaccurate to you because teeeeeeechnically it'll also be an unsigned concurrency with Highway 8, so teeeeeeechnically it's not incorrect to say drivers would be taking Highway 8 too. But I'm trying to politely tell you, in the only way I can in this communication medium: that doesn't matter, and it'll just confuse people if you keep calling it Highway 8. This does not mean I think you're stupid, or don't know what you're talking about, or that I'm trying to pick a fight with you. I like you, you're a bright fella.
I appreciate your contributions in this thread and elsewhere, and I'm looking forward to more updates as the West ringroad projects are completed.
God help your parents if they have to find what they think is called Bishop Grandin high school. Or Lindsay Park Sport Centre.
*sigh*... Yes, it is annoying when people keep telling you you're wrong. Yessiree, it suuuure is...
Yeah. Alberta generally doesn't put 2 sets of shields up on the same stretch, even if it would actually help. It's a weird scenario with the W and SW legs built by different people at different times, and the west leg people will be putting their own signs onto the existing road once they're done. My deepest condolences that your family can't figure out where they're going but you might as well put away your thesaurus and wait and see what the final signs look like before writing novels. Confusing signage in interim construction stages is not a new thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by powderjunkie
For practical purposes, I always thought it would make sense to name each half of the ring-road
Stoney Tr = east of Deerfoot
Tsuu Tina = west of Deerfoot
Northbound/southbound would make fairly simple sense (incl. the shorter sections that run E/W)
Agreed, though I don't support it now as we'd be taking away the Stoney name from a road they've had named for them 20 years in the NW, and It'd be expensive to replace all those signs. Unfortunately we'd built most of the ring by 2013 when the deal was signed; prior to this we had no idea if the SW leg would even be going through Tsuut'ina, tunneled under the city, or repurposing existing roads in the city. My guess is that we'd have no interest in naming half the road after Tsuut'ina if we were never able to get a deal done with them. To some degree, life would just be simpler if everyone just called it 201... then you can name whatever section whatever you want and it generally wouldn't cause confusion.
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God help your parents if they have to find what they think is called Bishop Grandin high school. Or Lindsay Park Sport Centre.
My mother is admittedly not the sharpest knife in the cutlery drawer. That said, if you told some newcomer to the city to go to the Lindsay Park Sports Centre they'd probably begrudge you for not calling it Repsol instead, and wouldn't appreciate you telling them "well technically it is still the sports centre at Lindsay Park, and you ought to know that".
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What is Bishop Grandin High School called these days anyway? I know they were going to change the name, but I don't really care what they end up calling it so I haven't followed.
What is Bishop Grandin High School called these days anyway? I know they were going to change the name, but I don't really care what they end up calling it so I haven't followed.
I think it’s called Haysboro Catholic High School now
I have found the signage for this project really weird where the level of think is very high to to know where you are going. These sign's need to highlight direction, main point's of interest like Hospitals and Airport and emphasize using the ringroad to BYPASS the city to go out to Banff, Edmonton, Lethbridge, Okotoks etc.
People have no idea how many times I have had to correct friends and family about the need to use the route to access Banff by going west to Highway 22. It seems that all the people who live in the Bridlewood, Evergreen and other areas are just using the ringroad to get to Sarcee and than to 16th Ave.
There may be a sign indicating this but look how poorly the sign is indicating what to do? A little "Transcanada Highway" sign and use "Bypass Route" It's also on the side of the road, not a significant sign for the whole purpose of the road. Sure truck drivers and people who frequent this forum may know, but does the common driver?
Another example that has happened a million times in the 2 weeks the 22X portion has opened. People I know trying to head down to Okotoks from 22X and getting all confused with the 2A turnoff. The sign from what I remember says 2A/ City Center, Macleod Trail. Once you take the turnoff it indicates two options and one Lethbridge etc.
When approaching at a high rate of speed a lot of south drivers are saying " I don't want Macleod Trail or to go downtown, I want highway 2"
I have driven extensively the US freeway and Interstate system and driven a lot in Greece and other places in Europe. When I see how easily I have been able to navigate these style of roads and the struggle people I know are having in Calgary, it's interesting. Why are people who grew up here struggling with this? I pride myself knowing the city and the roadnetwork/best route very very well and I have found myself a few times really needing to think and process and talk it out about where I am going and the best exit to take. Too many names, name changes, lack of information on the sign, poor directional updates.
Either way, hopefully everybody stays safe and uses the road as much as possible.
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But Lindsay Park Sports Centre hasn't been called that in eons. Like decades.
I still call it that. The people who I talk to know what I mean. If some newcomer or 20-something doesn’t… <shrug>.
I never got onboard with calling it the Talisman Centre. Or Repsol. And I won’t get onboard with it’s new name 5 or 6 years from now. Or the name after that. The practice of corporate sponsors changing the names of our public facilities and landmarks every 8-10 years can #### off.
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Haha, that's like getting a covid test last year. The options were: the old Swiss Chalet, the old Greyhound station, or the old children's hospital. Good luck to anyone new to Calgary, trying to get one!!
