It's time to retire #14

[krynski]

Right, because with a team composed of Joe Mullen, Hakan Loob, Joe Niewendyk, DOug Gilmour, Gary Suter, and Al Macinnis he was a real difference maker? Not to mention that a few above are, and rightfully so, are hall of famers? It was either that Calgary won, or Edmonton. That was the era.

[krynski]

Originally Posted by wretched34

I guess I just don't understand the hate some of you have. I get that he had/has a strong personality, but isn't that what made him such a feisty emotional player? How could you honestly expect him not to have a chip on his shoulder after everything he went through?

Nope, I don't expect it. I'm sick of hearing it as an excuse for everything. He lack accountability. Accountability is what a retiree should exemplify. It's not a quality one an necessarily develop, which puts jersey retirees a step above the rest.

[indes]

My all time favorite player! Just because he had an attitude sometimes and wasn't a completely vanilla player like 99% of them are doesn't make him a bad guy. Feisty and tough as nails I don't see how any flames fan could not like this guy. Retire it!

[indes]

Originally Posted by krynski

Nope, I don't expect it. I'm sick of hearing it as an excuse for everything. He lack accountability. Accountability is what a retiree should exemplify. It's not a quality one an necessarily develop, which puts jersey retirees a step above the rest.

Jesus give the guy a break, did Fleury draw something rude on your high horse when you weren't looking?

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by krynski

Nope, I don't expect it. I'm sick of hearing it as an excuse for everything. He lack accountability. Accountability is what a retiree should exemplify. It's not a quality one an necessarily develop, which puts jersey retirees a step above the rest.

I'm sick of hearing "He had a rough childhood" as an excuse in murder cases, or rape cases, or things along that line, but we are no where near that line, we're talking about a guy having an attitude and some addiction problems, I think his childhood was rough enough to allow the guy to tell people to **** off every now and then.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Tsawwassen

Yep, that's right. It's the interpretation of what a drug addict is. Caffeine and chocolate are legal drugs. A drug is simply “Any substance which when absorbed into a living organism may modify one or more of its functions.” In reality, "any substance that by its chemical nature alters structure or function in the living organism is a drug. . . ."
http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Con...119724962.html

Alcohol is a legal drug too. I think that was the original point. It might be mind altering but it is legal.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by krynski

Right, because with a team composed of Joe Mullen, Hakan Loob, Joe Niewendyk, DOug Gilmour, Gary Suter, and Al Macinnis he was a real difference maker? Not to mention that a few above are, and rightfully so, are hall of famers? It was either that Calgary won, or Edmonton. That was the era.

So a on a blackhawks team, with the likes of, Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Seabrook and Keith, Dave Bolland, Andrew Shaw and Bryan Bickell were just along for the free cup?

You don't seem to grab the concept of team sports.

[Yanda]

Dont worry Iginla will Ryan Smyth his way back on the team in 2016 to retire a flame

[RedMileDJ]

Is there an email address or specific person within the Flames organization that we can contact about retiring numbers? I think with enough pressure, and public support, we could get Theo's number retired.

[moon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I disagree, Fleury would go out and initiate crap and take a penalty when the Flames were not engaged. You say he took stupid penalties yet you ignore the fact that Fleury drew way more penalties from the opposition than he took. He was a 5'6 hockey player in a big mans game, if he did not take some of those penalties guys would think they could just walk all over him. The guy was heat and emotion night in and night out while battling demons from a tough upbringing.

I certainly saw the penalties where he was fighting back and standing up for himself and have much less of an issue with those. I am talking about the slashing calls after a guy took the puck off his stick in the neutral zone or the brutal hooking calls he would get "backchecking" after someone didn't pass him the puck. Those aren't plays he made because he was 5'6 and sticking up for himself those were selfish plays he made because he was having a tantrum that things didn't go his way.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I find it absolutely mind boggling that any Flames fan would not want #14 in the rafters. There was never a more iconic player imo to suit up for the Flames. From the little man that could helping the team win the SC, the amazing story of what he went through, the attempted comeback to retire a Flame (should have made the team too) and everything he has done for the city of Calgary it is simply mind boggling.

To me Iginla was a much more iconic guy based on his better play on the ice, much better leader and of course miles better person off the ice.

The comeback is a perfect example where Fleury was clearly two steps behind everyone else and just awful out there and instead of realizing this and handling it properly he takes shots at the team and management when it was his own lack of ability at that age that kept him off the team. To me that lack of taking responsibility, lack of class and looking to blame everyone else for his failure is a perfect example of what Fleury is/was and why I have no desire to see his jersey retired.

[Stay Golden]

It is an insult to the Flames fans that grew up cheering for the Flames of the late 80's 90's. Theo was the face of the organization while he played here. It is clear to me ownership and Kking do not appreciate what Theo did for this team on the ice and they only look at his off ice antics.
The reason why I say Kking is because every STH forum or pregame meet and greet I bring up the topic as it is my mission as a fan to see the 2nd greatest Forward in Flames history get his number or image hung from the rafters. Kking like a broken record the reply to is always the same" God bless my soul for being such a passionate fan",
His answer not once is ever hockey related to Theo it always is about how players have to represent themselves with in the city.
And that they have been debating whether to honor or retire "the player's number".
The player no Ken you can say his name Theoren Fleury.
King has been saying the same thing for 6-7 years now.

Wow that must be some kind of debate. I doubt it.
In spite of the private nightmare being a young longtime victim of a vile predator and all the good charitable work Theo has done hasn't changed the Flames to do the right thing!

[browna]

Originally Posted by moon

To me Iginla was a much more iconic guy based on his better play on the ice, much better leader and of course miles better person off the ice.

The comeback is a perfect example where Fleury was clearly two steps behind everyone else and just awful out there and instead of realizing this and handling it properly he takes shots at the team and management when it was his own lack of ability at that age that kept him off the team. To me that lack of taking responsibility, lack of class and looking to blame everyone else for his failure is a perfect example of what Fleury is/was and why I have no desire to see his jersey retired.

Exactly, IMO any comparing Iginla to Fleury is brutal, especially as the "prototypical" Calgary Flame. Most everything Iginla did on the ice and off, he did with class and humility, outside of his one holdout.

Sure, Fleury was a really good player for the team, when he was on, he was on (look at some of those playoff games vs SJ) sometimes the only thing worth watching in the mid 90's to later 90's, given his tenacity, skill, and sometimes, waiting for the car wreck to see him flip out in one way or another. But being the best player and "face" on a average team for 4 or 5 years (1994ish-1999) doesn't automatically gain you rafter status, no matter how fiery or demonstrative he was.

If guys like MacInnis(not just honored) or Mullen etc were up in the rafters, then I can could see the argument for Fleury...the Flames are holding players to higher standards than that obviously. Goodness knows the owners, many of who were here while Fleury was playing and knowing how much they had to deal with his off ice issues, and then him wanting out of here, have their feelings about him that go beyond on ice accomplishments.

Thus, I have zero issue with Fleury not being up there.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

It is clear to me ownership and Kking do not appreciate what Theo did for this team on the ice and they only look at his off ice antics.

Have you ever considered that maybe the team knows a little more about Fleury than you do? I think that those with a long term involvement with the team likely is aware with the history of Fleury and how divisive he was in the dressing room. He wasn't a great team guy, he wasn't a great leader and he wasn't a great mentor. He definitely wasn't a model citizen. This is probably what the team is considering when they weigh any possible number retirement or player honorarium.

The reason why I say Kking is because every STH forum or pregame meet and greet I bring up the topic as it is my mission as a fan to see the 2nd greatest Forward in Flames history get his number or image hung from the rafters. Kking like a broken record the reply to is always the same" God bless my soul for being such a passionate fan",
His answer not once is ever hockey related to Theo it always is about how players have to represent themselves with in the city.

There is your answer right there. For a player to be bestowed the greatest honor possible they must hold the highest qualities in all aspects of their character. They must not only be a great player on the ice, they must be a great individual off the ice and be a great ambassador for the game, the team and be an upstanding person.

In spite of the private nightmare being a young longtime victim of a vile predator and all the good charitable work Theo has done hasn't changed the Flames to do the right thing!

Retire Sheldon Kennedy's number?

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by krynski

Nope, I don't expect it. I'm sick of hearing it as an excuse for everything. He lack accountability. Accountability is what a retiree should exemplify. It's not a quality one an necessarily develop, which puts jersey retirees a step above the rest.

How the #### did he use it as an excuse for everything? He didn't even admit it happened until he was done with hockey.

All it did, when he admitted it happened, was make sense for people as to why he had so many personal issues.

[driveway]

Fleury should not have his number retired before Iginla. If we need a Vernon-esque jersey ceremony between Iginla's retirement and the next truly legitimate (please god let him be in our system right now, whoever he is) number-retirement worthy player, then we can retire #14.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by New Era

Have you ever considered that maybe the team knows a little more about Fleury than you do? I think that those with a long term involvement with the team likely is aware with the history of Fleury and how divisive he was in the dressing room. He wasn't a great team guy, he wasn't a great leader and he wasn't a great mentor. He definitely wasn't a model citizen. This is probably what the team is considering when they weigh any possible number retirement or player honorarium.



There is your answer right there. For a player to be bestowed the greatest honor possible they must hold the highest qualities in all aspects of their character. They must not only be a great player on the ice, they must be a great individual off the ice and be a great ambassador for the game, the team and be an upstanding person.

Retire Sheldon Kennedy's number?

Really so what is argument about Roy with the Av's and Montreal and Lindsay with the Redwings. Legends that had a string of off ice incidents. You can go team by team and find some of their greatest players that were no angels away from the game as you put it..."they must be a great individual off the ice and be a great ambassador for the game, the team and be an upstanding person".

#14 should by up there period and the small amount of Fans and and some members of the Flames ownership and brass that disagree have a vendetta against Fleury.

[Bezer]

I was a fan of Fleury but the way he left Calgary the comments that he made after the fact about the organization was and is too much for me to think about retiring his jersey.

[Stay Golden]

Grant Fuhr is not worthy to have had his #31 retired. Not a stand up guy away from the game. Cocaine , playing high and a career of Womanizing. Suspended 59 games.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Really so what is argument about Roy with the Av's and Montreal and Lindsay with the Redwings. Legends that had a string of off ice incidents. You can go team by team and find some of their greatest players that were no angels away from the game as you put it..."they must be a great individual off the ice and be a great ambassador for the game, the team and be an upstanding person".

Those decisions are made by the teams that retired the players, not by those who own and control the Calgary Flames. What happened with those particular players is irrelevant to the discussion of the Calgary Flames. The Flames have made it very clear they are building this team through quality character and quality people. See the non-drafting of Skinkaruk. The honors they bestow on past players will reflect the same belief.

#14 should by up there period and the small amount of Fans and and some members of the Flames ownership and brass that disagree have a vendetta against Fleury.

A vendetta? You're making an accusation that there are a group of people that are conspiring against Fleury and depriving him of something rightfully his. What you are forgetting is that the honor is bestowed by the team, and by the owners of that team, not by anyone else. If there is a vendetta against Fleury, and I don't believe there is, it is one of the player's making, based on his behaviors toward the team and owners.

You're going to have to accept the fact that the honor of number retirement is decided by the ownership of the team and all the foot stamping and kicking and screaming, by a very small group of fans of the hockey club, will have little bearing on their decision. They have more insight into what Fleury meant to team, on and off the ice, than the fans do and they will make the right decision for their team. Whatever the outcome is, there are going to be some upset people.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

How the #### did he use it as an excuse for everything? He didn't even admit it happened until he was done with hockey.

All it did, when he admitted it happened, was make sense for people as to why he had so many personal issues.

..and yet some still can't excuse his behaviour. I'm not sure they quite understand the severity of his upbringing/abuse. The guys in this thread are making it sound like he had your typical sh**ty childhood, and it's no excuse, and he should just overcome that and become a normal person.

A man had forced sexual relations with Theo Fleury, in exchange for not stopping his dream of making the NHL. Just read that sentence three times and let it sink in. You're a kid, you leave home and a grown man climbs into bed with you and plays with you, night after night, and claims if you stop going with it, your NHL dream is over.

Let that sink in, just let it. And then re-read your own comments about how he burned bridges and was a crappy person and says stupid things. Yeah, no ****ing ****, he's been through hell and back. The fact that he made the NHL is a miracle, the fact that he excelled in the NHL is a miracle, the fact that he's alive today is a miracle, and you guys are talking about off ice/personal issues like they're his fault.

You're talking about him like he's a normal person who can change how he is because it isn't ideal. That's ****ing ridiculous.

Retire #14.