Joni fricken Ortio

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Benched

He needed it.

He was going to be the odd man out if he didn't show his stuff.

They set him up to fail/really prove himself. Dressed a AHL defense, going against Duchene and MacKinnon. I thought they were really hanging him out to dry so that when he got pumped they could say 'hes not that good' and set him up for a waiver move.

Instead he shuts the door, gets noticed. Regardless of who ends up staying, you can't waiver this kid.

Why on earth would the Flames hang him out to dry?

If you were Treliving, would you try to make one of your assets fail, just so your decision on who to keep was easier?

Is there a universe where that's a good way to run a team?

There is nothing the Flames would like more than to have Ortio claim one of the two jobs in Calgary. That makes the franchise stronger. Then they can try to move one of the other guys for an asset, continue to develop their younger player, save some cap space, and have a goalie that is both under contract for next year, and has some potential to build around.

Setting him up for failure was not their plan.

[Enoch Root]

Very excited to see that Ortio had a great game. I think goaltending is the biggest question on the team right now and obviously it would be huge for the team if he can step up.

But calling this the biggest game of his career is silly. It's one game. One pre-season game.

It's great that he did well, but there are still 2 weeks left in camp.

[SuperMatt18]

Why is everyone assuming Ortio is the odd man out...

If anything I feel like coming into this it is Hiller who is the odd man out.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I love Finnish goalies because I agree more with their style of play on a team like Calgary.

I believe HuntingWhale was trying to link (link didn't work) to an article about Finnish goalies and how they are developed over there. They are not encouraged to rely on the butterfly. Instead, they are forced to use their athleticism in controlling their rebounds and redirecting them. They are also taught to swallow up rebounds completely.

Blocking goalies have their place. They often do a fantastic job of blocking the first shot, and it is up to the defencemen to clear it. I think they work great on teams with big strong defencemen who can ensure they are not out-muscled in the crease by the forwards looking for the rebounds, and are able to clear the puck to safety. On teams with smaller defencemen, I think this proves to be a disadvantage. Just my thoughts anyways.

On the Flames, I do think that a combo of Ramo and Ortio would be better than Hiller and Ramo due to the Flames having more of the 'finesse puck-moving defencemen with active sticks', rather than the bigger and more brawny Engelland (rather, Regehr) -type of defencemen able to clear the front of the net.

Giguere was an excellent 'blocking-butterfly' goalie, and that defence (and team) were definitely on the large side of things.

Maybe it doesn't matter as much as I am thinking? I don't know, but I have always preferred a traditional athletic goalie who can swallow up the first shot without giving up a rebound, or if there is a rebound, is able to redirect it and who has the athleticism to recover quickly for those second (and sometimes third) attempts, over a blocking goalie that will be nearly impossible to beat with the first shot, but who relies on his teammates to clear the puck.

[jaikorven]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Why is everyone assuming Ortio is the odd man out...

If anything I feel like coming into this it is Hiller who is the odd man out.

I tend to agree with this. Hiller is the oldest, the more recognizable name and the most likely to get any assets via a trade.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Why is everyone assuming Ortio is the odd man out...

If anything I feel like coming into this it is Hiller who is the odd man out.

I've been thinking the same thing, they just re-signed Ramo which indicates that they want to keep him around and Ortio is our top Goaltending prospect, I always felt that Hiller was a stop-gap.

Which really sucks because I always felt Hiller was generally very reliable and steady, he came in and saved the day a few times.

[Reggie Dunlop]

When's the last time we had a goaltender triumvirate? Turek, McLennan and Kiprusoff?

[Coach]

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Hopefully Joni carries Karri Ramo this season

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think the Flames as they stand have to still think build, and not now but it's ironic that Ortio could be the answer to both.

The Flames had middling goaltending last year. Not the weakness of the team, but certainly not the reason they made it to the playoffs and some media suggested without actually looking at the numbers.

Ortio has the best chance of the three to be a core player in 2 years.

And given the fact that we know what Ramo and Hiller as a tandem are (average), the best chance to get the lightning in a bottle for this season is Ortio pushing the Flames to say the 11th best goaltending and fortifying the position.

His unknown upside is a real intriguing factor in his favour.

So who's the odd man out in your opinion? I realize Ramo is the fan favorite here but it was largely Hiller that backstopped the team into the playoffs and in the first round playoff victory over the Canucks. I feel going with he and Ortio is the safest bet looking back on how things played out last year. Going with Ramo and Ortio is more of an unknown as Ramo was the backup last year and Ortio is still unproven.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So who's the odd man out in your opinion? I realize Ramo is the fan favorite here but it was largely Hiller that backstopped the team into the playoffs and in the first round playoff victory over the Canucks. I feel going with he and Ortio is the safest bet looking back on how things played out last year. Going with Ramo and Ortio is more of an unknown as Ramo was the backup last year and Ortio is still unproven.

I think Hiller's number of starts over Ramo had more to do with Hiller playing than well it did with Ramo playing poorly (also he was injured a couple times I believe). I think most people see them pretty evenly, and that's why Hiller is the one proposed to trade because he has more of a league history and recognizability, and therefore will likely garner more in a trade. If you see them as relatively the same skill-wise, it only makes sense to trade the one that you think will return more.

[Benched]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Why on earth would the Flames hang him out to dry?

If you were Treliving, would you try to make one of your assets fail, just so your decision on who to keep was easier?

Is there a universe where that's a good way to run a team?

There is nothing the Flames would like more than to have Ortio claim one of the two jobs in Calgary. That makes the franchise stronger. Then they can try to move one of the other guys for an asset, continue to develop their younger player, save some cap space, and have a goalie that is both under contract for next year, and has some potential to build around.

Setting him up for failure was not their plan.

as I said, so he'd get lit up and they could move him through waivers.

I think you're pretty naive if the management didn't at least think that was one of the possibilities.

On the other hand they said 'if the kid can play well given this AHL defense, then we really might have something here'


Maybe it's not 'setting him up to fail'.....maybe a better term is 'trial by fire'

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Benched

as I said, so he'd get lit up and they could move him through waivers.

I think you're pretty naive if the management didn't at least think that was one of the possibilities.

On the other hand they said 'if the kid can play well given this AHL defense, then we really might have something here'


Maybe it's not 'setting him up to fail'.....maybe a better term is 'trial by fire'

I thought the line up was a pretty clear indication of who they need more looks at. They don't need to see the top 5 D. They don't need to see the majority of the top 9 forwards. Why play them?

[Benched]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I thought the line up was a pretty clear indication of who they need more looks at. They don't need to see the top 5 D. They don't need to see the majority of the top 9 forwards. Why play them?

And yet tonight we have a stacked lineup. Why not balance it out more? Or continue to play young guys who need another look?

Seems weird to me that we put forth such a no-name team, to turn around and dress a mainly NHL roster.


Hiller gets stacked defense
Ortio gets AHL defense

How is that fair?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Benched

And yet tonight we have a stacked lineup. Why not balance it out more? Or continue to play young guys who need another look?

Seems weird to me that we put forth such a no-name team, to turn around and dress a mainly NHL roster.


Hiller gets stacked defense
Ortio gets AHL defense

How is that fair?

Home game, home fans who want to see the stars. Especially because there are road games the day before and day after.

[Red Menace]

I certainly think it's a bad risk to expose him to waivers.
If Hiller or Ramo cannot be moved then they should carry 3 guys or send one of the vets to the AHL.
Signing Ramo was a poor decision, the difference between Hiller and Ramo is marginal, and with Ortio waiting in the wings it was a wasted move which might have adverse consequences to the franchise.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by Benched

And yet tonight we have a stacked lineup. Why not balance it out more? Or continue to play young guys who need another look?

Seems weird to me that we put forth such a no-name team, to turn around and dress a mainly NHL roster.


Hiller gets stacked defense
Ortio gets AHL defense

How is that fair?

because Hiller is a known quantity, and if he is to be traded, his value needs to be protected.
Ortio needed to prove himself. He played great and put the ball back in Treliving's court. A stinker and he would have been promptly placed on waivers to "sneak" him down

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

I certainly think it's a bad risk to expose him to waivers.
If Hiller or Ramo cannot be moved then they should carry 3 guys or send one of the vets to the AHL.
Signing Ramo was a poor decision, the difference between Hiller and Ramo is marginal, and with Ortio waiting in the wings it was a wasted move which might have adverse consequences to the franchise.

3 games, 3 nights home game in the middle. Vets only need to play one of them, so why make them travel?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Benched

And yet tonight we have a stacked lineup. Why not balance it out more? Or continue to play young guys who need another look?

Seems weird to me that we put forth such a no-name team, to turn around and dress a mainly NHL roster.


Hiller gets stacked defense
Ortio gets AHL defense

How is that fair?

It has nothing to do with fairness. I just think it's a little far-fetched to guess that Flames management put together the line up for last game purely to test Ortio. There are a lot of other battles going outside of goaltending.

Yesterday you see who stands out above their competition. Today you'll see a belnd, maybe to see how the bubble guys look compared to NHL calibre players. Tomorrow you'll probably see a similar blend, but with different prospects and veterans.

The Flames are rolling 4 D sets at practice, my guess is one of the top 2 pairs isn't playing.

[dammage79]

It's going to be Hiller/Ortio for the Flames in the 2015/2016 season.

Hiller's always been better than Ramo. Always has, good chance he will be again this year. Hiller's still technically the #1 goalie for CGY. Ramo wasn't. Even if you want to call it 1A/1B, Hiller was 1A.