11-10-2016, 02:31 PM
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#1081
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Franchise Player
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It's so weird to me how American white nationalists use so much German/Nazi imagery for their cause. Shouldn't you be using American symbols and culture/imagery?
Nazis were America's mortal enemy. They literally would have liked to wipe America off the map.
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11-10-2016, 02:31 PM
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#1082
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
So, when do we start seeing U.S. citizens coming up and declaring asylum? I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing a few cases soon.
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That'd actually be pretty interesting. I'd have to go back and look at the research I did on the various refugee clauses in international law but if things go as sideways as the rhetoric during Trump's campaigns you wonder if Muslims would qualify.
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11-10-2016, 02:38 PM
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#1083
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
Okay, so you're not going to answer my question? I said in my first post that my first instinct if someone were to say that police brutality, etc., wasn't grounded in white supremacy as likely incredibly ignorant due to my own experiences with these types of debates. Ignorant might have been the wrong term. You can substitute misinformed, uninformed, missing a certain perspective, etc. However, I also said that I'm open to the possibility that they're not, or that I'm wrong.
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I'm not sure what the question was? That I'm predisposed to bias and characterize my opponent in every debate? I agree that I'm predisposed to bias because everyone is. I try not to characterize my opponent, and try to give the most charitable possible reading to their perspective - to interpret it in a way that they would agree with. For example, earlier when you made the "sugar coating" argument, that seemed extreme to me because I don't agree with the notion that white supremacy is the root cause of police violence against black people, so I confirmed that you meant what I took you to mean.
When you say "anyone who disagrees with me is ignorant", or "uninformed", you really do not come across as someone who wants to have a conversation, or that anyone would want to have a conversation with. I would never say something like that, unless it's on something I see as totally uncontroversial, like whether vaccines cause autism. In saying that anyone who disagrees with me on that is ignorant, I'm signalling that I don't want to have a conversation about it, because... I don't. That shouldn't be the approach to most political issues, in my opinion. To then add, "I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong" seems pretty disingenuous.
EDIT: I guess I should say that I'd never say something like that if I wasn't in a pretty bad mood, or that if I did I'd regret saying something like that if I thought about it. Frankly, we're probably all in a pretty bad mood right now, understandably.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Last edited by CorsiHockeyLeague; 11-10-2016 at 02:43 PM.
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11-10-2016, 02:38 PM
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#1084
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsYcNeT
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Are white nationalists ever not calling to arms?
That's a rhetorical question, don't bother to answer it. Have fun reading and linking to their sites.
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11-10-2016, 02:40 PM
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#1085
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
Every generation is different from those that preceded it. You think Boomers had the same attitude and cultural priorities as their grandparents? And like every other generation in history, Millennials will have different attitudes and priorities when they're 45 than they have today. The Boomers were going to transform the world. No more war, no more corporate greed, no more empty materialism...
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Well except that Millennials will have to adapt. North American Boomers were a generation of plenty. Everyone got cars, were able to afford houses, had a social license to consume and pollute as much as they wanted to, etc. Millennials by all accounts are going to end up with more debt, less wealth/property, less children, less religion, and shorter lives than the generations before them. One of the things peter12 always harped on was the cultural nihilism of the younger generations, and he had a point even if was a little too in love with Christianity. And I think it was you who brought up the dogmatic elements of the new left, and I wonder if that's what we're seeing, religion's role in social cohesion and community-building being replaced by the brand of activism being practiced right now (and there's way more to it than social media and "outrage culture").
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11-10-2016, 02:42 PM
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#1086
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
It's so weird to me how American white nationalists use so much German/Nazi imagery for their cause. Shouldn't you be using American symbols and culture/imagery?
Nazis were America's mortal enemy. They literally would have liked to wipe America off the map.
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You're expecting logical, rational thought neo-nazis?
Think about this:
The Confederate Flag was Flown as an enemy flag to the United States of America. For many states in the US, it's the only foreign flag that's ever been flown on their soil.
It is the symbol of a treasonous attack on the government of the People's United States and is proudly flown by some of the most vociferous defendants of the 'ideal' of America.
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11-10-2016, 02:51 PM
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#1087
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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Trump's contract with voters for the first 100 days..
https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_lan...ontractv02.pdf
Looks like its signed by someone named Sarah Hammy..
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11-10-2016, 02:54 PM
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#1088
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NOT breaking news
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Calgary
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There is no way such an asylum case would stand unless the US abolishes the Rule of Law.
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
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11-10-2016, 02:54 PM
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#1089
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
Everyone understands the popular vote is meaningless. The argument is that it shouldn't be.
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I understand that, I'm just pointing out the national popular vote in the current US presidential system would be different (even if only in a modest way) than in a system where the whole country voted equally and directly for the president.
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11-10-2016, 02:56 PM
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#1090
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Commie Referee
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Small town, B.C.
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Trump's first day inside the Oval Office.
The first thing he does? Lies.
Quote:
Then he started his remarks with something that was not true: “This was a meeting that was going to last for maybe 10 or 15 minutes,” Trump said.
The meeting had been scheduled to last an hour. The reporters brought into the Oval Office at the end were told long before not to even assemble for the brief access at its end until the meeting would have been going on for 30 minutes.
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http://www.politico.com/story/2016/1...nemesis-231200
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11-10-2016, 03:00 PM
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#1091
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NOT breaking news
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Calgary
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Thats petty. People dont speak in absolutes. They under and over estimate time all the time.
Ive been waiting forever for this bus then it suddenly appeared.
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
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11-10-2016, 03:01 PM
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#1092
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Retired
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burn_this_city
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There's no way those tax cuts are doable, especially if he want to build the infrastructure he says he does. That's the most obvious issue. Lots more but there are some decent ideas in there.
At the same time, its almost like Obama 2.0: Lots of promise but most of these will never get through congress even if Donald has the advantage over Obama of both houses being republican.
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11-10-2016, 03:03 PM
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#1093
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
When you say "anyone who disagrees with me is ignorant", or "uninformed", you really do not come across as someone who wants to have a conversation, or that anyone would want to have a conversation with. I would never say something like that, unless it's on something I see as totally uncontroversial, like whether vaccines cause autism. In saying that anyone who disagrees with me on that is ignorant, I'm signalling that I don't want to have a conversation about it, because... I don't. That shouldn't be the approach to most political issues, in my opinion. To then add, "I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong" seems pretty disingenuous.
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No, what I'm saying is that "I find what I believe to be true based on the sources of information I've been exposed to and the perspective I've examined the topic from. Many of the people I've previously had this discussion with haven't been exposed to the same information or considered the same perspectives." It might be arrogant but I don't think it's particularly unusual. You're acting as if my belief that someone is LIKELY ignorant is based on some reflexive instinct to them disagreeing and that this carries over to any topic, when it's completely based on my experiences in these types of debates.
It's like when someone starts going off about world banking conspiracies, I immediately start to think that they might be an anti-semite or bat#### crazy because that's what my experiences with the type of people who espouse world banking experiences have been. I don't think I'm unique in this. We're all coloured by our previous experiences.
EDIT: I should also add that these would be my thoughts about the person. I wouldn't immediately jump down their throats and call them a bigot for disagreeing with me unless I was totally fed up with them or they were quite clearly a bigot.
Last edited by rubecube; 11-10-2016 at 03:15 PM.
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11-10-2016, 03:04 PM
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#1094
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Basement Chicken Choker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redforever
This election was a tie in terms of the popular vote as far as I am concerned.
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That result, and the problem behind that result is, again, the two-party system.What do you do if your viewpoint lies outside the Democrat or Republican mainstream? What do you do when not casting a vote is implicitly supporting the party you like least, as your vote is then not counted against them? What you do when you perceive two wrong ways to do things and a mandatory choice between them?
It's a feedback loop that it is almost impossible to break out of, once you've gone far enough into it. Everything becomes a binary choice, you're either a shrill regressive leftie bent on destroying freedom and prosperity, or you are a racist misogynist ignoramus gun-fetishist. You either want to kill babies or enslave women. You either want to hug terrorists or nuke Tehran. You want to either muzzle free speech or enable deplorables to reclaim n***** for the KKK. Everyone has a hidden agenda, except those that agree with you, who are obviously just speaking hard truths and then mic-dropping.
The election of Trump, much as I think he is a terrible person and terrible choice as President, isn't the harbinger of the racial apocalypse or the destruction of social progress so much as it is the signal that the system has, for the second time, proven its complete inadequacy. All Clinton winning would have done is pushed the issue an election or two down the way. Now Americans need to think about what new myths can fuel the country once - and it WILL happen - the nostalgic romance for a world that never was has failed.
__________________
Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
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11-10-2016, 03:05 PM
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#1095
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
You're expecting logical, rational thought neo-nazis?
Think about this:
The Confederate Flag was Flown as an enemy flag to the United States of America. For many states in the US, it's the only foreign flag that's ever been flown on their soil.
It is the symbol of a treasonous attack on the government of the People's United States and is proudly flown by some of the most vociferous defendants of the 'ideal' of America.
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What's really funny too is that many neo-nazis actually view Hitler as a race traitor.
I was viewing some of conversations on that website before and like a train wreck, I couldn't look away. There were 2 sides ripping into each other. One side was saying Hitler was awesome and the other saying he was a race traitor and killed more white people than anyone else. There are the old school "Aryan" neo-nazis who only identify with the nordic whites, and then there are more "liberal" neo-nazis who accept any white people and quickly condemn any white-on-white violence and promote peace among white nations.
It was one of the most bizarre internet threads I ever came across.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 11-10-2016 at 03:08 PM.
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11-10-2016, 03:05 PM
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#1096
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
It's so weird to me how American white nationalists use so much German/Nazi imagery for their cause. Shouldn't you be using American symbols and culture/imagery?
Nazis were America's mortal enemy. They literally would have liked to wipe America off the map.
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There are Polish and Russian Neo-Nazis. The Nazis thought the Slavs were sub human and wanted to eliminate them.
This isn't really a logical mindset.
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11-10-2016, 03:09 PM
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#1097
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Franchise Player
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I wonder what all these people who are up in arms are going to do when essentially nothing changes in 4 years and Trump probably doesn't run again because he feels too old.
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11-10-2016, 03:14 PM
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#1098
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In the Sin Bin
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Is he already complaining about the work? Who cares if the meeting was longer than he expected? You're the president-elect meeting with the current president for the first time after the election. Jesus.
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11-10-2016, 03:16 PM
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#1099
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weitz
I wonder what all these people who are up in arms are going to do when essentially nothing changes in 4 years and Trump probably doesn't run again because he feels too old.
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Health permitting, Trump will run again. His ego is too big not to.
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11-10-2016, 03:16 PM
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#1100
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weitz
I wonder what all these people who are up in arms are going to do when essentially nothing changes in 4 years and Trump probably doesn't run again because he feels too old.
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they will watch a throwdown between Ivanka for the Republicans squaring off against Michelle Obama for the Democrats.
__________________
"OOOOOOHHHHHHH those Russians" - Boney M
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