[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

The goal of the NHL is not ‘fun’. It’s not to ‘entertain’ the fan base.

It’s to win the Stanley Cup.

The goal of the NHL is to make money. The principal purpose of the Stanley Cup is to give fans the illusion that the teams are competing for something important.

If team owners thought winning the Stanley Cup was their goal, they would never have expanded beyond the Original Six. Every team added reduces their chances of achieving that goal.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The goal of the NHL is to make money. The principal purpose of the Stanley Cup is to give fans the illusion that the teams are competing for something important.

This is so tragically true if you follow sports. And the Flames organization follows this to a tee on a team level.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by jayswin

This is so tragically true if you follow sports. And the Flames organization follows this to a tee on a team level.

Not sure it’s all that tragic, that’s the goal of business in general.

McDonalds wants to make money, not serve the best food in the world.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

The goal of the NHL is not ‘fun’. It’s not to ‘entertain’ the fan base.

It’s to win the Stanley Cup.

If the fan base is not entertained, they don’t show up, and the team will eventually be forced to move.

While winning achieves some of those goals, hockey is a business first and foremost.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Just heard the last bit in the Podcast where Johnny would’ve re-upped for 8 years back in 2021 if it was anything close to his target number.

That’s definitely a sad revelation in that we could’ve had Johnny, Chucky and the best line in hockey back had it not been for Brad’s infamous penny pinching ways. I’ll never understand why he’s so notoriously difficult negotiating with his own guys, but is so eager to roll out the red carpet with a blank cheque for UFAs who proven nothing with his franchise, especially with his track record in July.

Ironically, he probably should’ve looked at tightening his purse strings with the Huberdeau and Weegar signings. Maybe he just didn’t want to repeat the same mistake that he made with Gaudreau back in 2021, but compounding mistakes on top of mistakes doesn’t seem like the recipe for success. You have to know what you’re signing up for long term and sadly, Treliving’s been a victim of this pretty much his whole managerial career.

Huberdeau there was no getting around. Needed to sign him based on historical performance. Weegar is where I’d agree with you. We signed him at peak value, and as long as he’s deployed as a 3-4 D he’s massively over paid. I actually really like the player, too. There was little risk to letting it play out and see how he fit before committing long term, especially with Huby signed already and the value recouped in the trade already.

[scotty2hotty]

I stand corrected

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If the fan base is not entertained, they don’t show up, and the team will eventually be forced to move.

While winning achieves some of those goals, hockey is a business first and foremost.

Pro sports is a vanity project for many of these owners. They are looking to compete in addition to making money. I agree, the profit motivation is still very strong but there are other motives involved as well.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Huberdeau there was no getting around. Needed to sign him based on historical performance. Weegar is where I’d agree with you. We signed him at peak value, and as long as he’s deployed as a 3-4 D he’s massively over paid. I actually really like the player, too. There was little risk to letting it play out and see how he fit before committing long term, especially with Huby signed already and the value recouped in the trade already.

Really long term he will be a 2/3 on this team likely.

$6.25M is easily second pairing d-man money in a world where top pairing guys make $9-$10M. 44 defender this year make over $6M, and that number is only going to climb next year when Weegar's contract actually kicks in.

He's been good this year even without the point totals (probably our most reliable d-man), and that contract will age just fine.

Look at the steps Zadorov took in year one under Sutter to year two.

[dino7c]

Weegar has been one of the Flames best dmen...with the cap going up he is not overpaid at all

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Huberdeau there was no getting around. Needed to sign him based on historical performance. Weegar is where I’d agree with you. We signed him at peak value, and as long as he’s deployed as a 3-4 D he’s massively over paid. I actually really like the player, too. There was little risk to letting it play out and see how he fit before committing long term, especially with Huby signed already and the value recouped in the trade already.

This just doesn't make any sense.

He is what he is - a really good defenseman that can play top pairing minutes. That makes him worth his contract. What pairing the Flames utilize him on, is irrelevant with respect to his salary. They have been playing Tanev on the 3rd pairing at times this year, does that make him overpaid? No - he is what he is, and is underpaid. What pairing he is currently on does not change that.

[Naitix]

No issue whatsoever with Weegar contract, he has been primarily focused on playing the defensive game and learning the ropes, and I think he has been quite good at it all things considered.
He was jumping into play way more often at the start of the season, so I expect him to add an offensive element to his game once he is fully adjusted on the defensive side. I have already started noticing him jumping into play more often in the latest games, the offence will come.

[dino7c]

Look at the Panthers D they obviously miss him badly

[Kasi]

Yeah I have no issue with Weegar. Long term he’s going to be our best defensemen and locking him in at 6.25 is great. Huberdeau is my main concern here. Well Kadri too to a lesser extent given his age.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This just doesn't make any sense.

He is what he is - a really good defenseman that can play top pairing minutes. That makes him worth his contract. What pairing the Flames utilize him on, is irrelevant with respect to his salary. They have been playing Tanev on the 3rd pairing at times this year, does that make him overpaid? No - he is what he is, and is underpaid. What pairing he is currently on does not change that.

Not sure what doesn't make sense. Having players at a premium pay grade with reduced roles isn't a good use of cap, and limits other spots you can improve your roster.

The Flames paid Weegar - what I'd argue is UFA market rate for his productivity - because he's a good 2-way defenseman. If he's not seeing PP time or put in offensive situations, his value is reduced in comparison with his salary.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The goal of the NHL is to make money. The principal purpose of the Stanley Cup is to give fans the illusion that the teams are competing for something important.

If team owners thought winning the Stanley Cup was their goal, they would never have expanded beyond the Original Six. Every team added reduces their chances of achieving that goal.

I'm a huge believer that money is the #1 driver in this world, and I believe it is the main driver of both owners and players. However, the Stanley Cup is a trophy that the players do value in a big way. The sense of accomplishment, pride, achievement, etc. is a real thing. We occasionally see players sign for less money to win a cup. You could see on Ovechkin's face what it was like for him to lift the cup. Players like Johnny are pure money / lifestyle guys.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Really long term he will be a 2/3 on this team likely.

$6.25M is easily second pairing d-man money in a world where top pairing guys make $9-$10M. 44 defender this year make over $6M, and that number is only going to climb next year when Weegar's contract actually kicks in.

He's been good this year even without the point totals (probably our most reliable d-man), and that contract will age just fine.

Look at the steps Zadorov took in year one under Sutter to year two.

I like Weegar, and think you're probably right on the long-term trajectory. I still don't think it would have been detrimental to see the fit on this team before the long-term commitment, even if it risked him going to market or pricing himself to a slightly bigger pay day. Easy to say in hindsight but factoring in the Huby extension already in place, Weegar did not need to be re-signed so urgently for the Flames to have 'won' the Tkachuk trade.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

The goal of the NHL is not ‘fun’. It’s not to ‘entertain’ the fan base.

It’s to win the Stanley Cup.

I wish I still had this rose coloured view of the world... alas my friend, this is completely untrue. Individual players may care about winning the cup, but the NHL cares only about one thing - money. In order to make money it should be a fun and entertaining product.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Pro sports is a vanity project for many of these owners. They are looking to compete in addition to making money. I agree, the profit motivation is still very strong but there are other motives involved as well.

That is absolutely true, but if winning the major prize was the only consideration, teams would be rebuilding all the time.

Many teams know their current roster isn't realistically capable of competing for the Stanley Cup. But instead of doing a complete rebuilding project, they muddle along and be a bubble team for 10 years. Calgary comes to mind. For years they likely knew they weren't winning anything, so as much as they wanted to win the SC, business issues prevailed until there was no choice as the rebuild was forced upon them.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Huberdeau there was no getting around. Needed to sign him based on historical performance. Weegar is where I’d agree with you. We signed him at peak value, and as long as he’s deployed as a 3-4 D he’s massively over paid. I actually really like the player, too. There was little risk to letting it play out and see how he fit before committing long term, especially with Huby signed already and the value recouped in the trade already.

Wow, I disagree with you guys both, majorly. I was extremely happy with the Weegar signing and pleasantly surprised with the number. And he's only going to get better as becomes more accustomed to the new system.

I think he will be our best defensemen for a good chuck of that contract, where most teams are paying $8-$10mil for top pairing guys these days.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I like Weegar, and think you're probably right on the long-term trajectory. I still don't think it would have been detrimental to see the fit on this team before the long-term commitment, even if it risked him going to market or pricing himself to a slightly bigger pay day. Easy to say in hindsight but factoring in the Huby extension already in place, Weegar did not need to be re-signed so urgently for the Flames to have 'won' the Tkachuk trade.

Disagree completely again. We picked up a likely top pairing D-man that was going to take some time to adjust to a new system. There absolutely was urgency to sign him before the season starts.

If he doesn't sign then he doesn't negotiate during the season and he goes to UFA. This was a great value signing for a premium position and he was most likely gone if we waited to see what we had in him, which was an even bigger threat than having to pay him more after the season ends.

The Weegar signing is fantastic was needed no matter what way you slice it.