[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[Rutuu]

A team built with the view that you're never going to sign UFAs...even your own is a pretty good team, with a good pipeline in my view.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

At that late stage "continuing to talk" wasn't an option. At that point they were making their final offers.

Why not? None of us have been involved in one of these negotiations so we're all speculating how they 'work'.

Does it make sense that Gross's strategy was to wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and then [allegedly] give a meet in the middle ultimatum with a little over 10 hrs left?

It's certainly possible, but I'm not sure it really passes the smell test...

Freidman has stated that there was a moment that day when a lot of people, including other teams, thought the deal was GOING TO GET done. I would theorize that is because Johnny's agent told those teams because he too thought it was done.
Johnny pulled the carpet on the Flames and his agent. Sent them all a tumblin'!

Added 3 words that Friedman was careful to say (twice) on the podcast. Pretty important distinction relative to any reneg or not.

Also, not sure how it would benefit Gross to jump the gun on leaking that, but who knows.

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That isn't a counteroffer. That's a negotiating tactic. If you're still futzing around with negotiating tactics in the last possible hours of the negotiation, you're doing it wrong.

That is a counteroffer.

I'm quite sure all the parties involved know the difference.

See above. What are you basing the bolded on?

Just because everyone here was super antsy doesn't and tired doesn't mean the principals were.

Originally Posted by AC

Well worth the listen, thanks for linking to this.

Steinberg and Francis both flat out say they know for a fact the Flames believed they had a deal in place with Gaudreau, which coincides the reports we've heard that the Flames agreed to Gross and Gaudreau's contract demands only for them to break the verbal agreement.

Steinberg says he heard the contract was imminent, minutes away from being official. If nothing else, Johnny (and his family) got cold feet at the last minute and went back on his word. Sounds incredibly unprofessional.

Reports? I've been asking and searching but haven't found anything beyond the single post on CP, which respectfully should be considered a 'rumour'. FWIW I believe the poster was given that story, I'm just not sure how accurately it has passed from person to person [to person? to person? etc], and even the OP acknowledges the likely Flames bias in the post.

I'd also reiterate that Steinberg and Francis made it clear that neither attempted to contact Gaudreau's side (except for 1 question in a presser). Balanced insiders reach out in all directions for comment (or no comment) to piece together a puzzle. With enough corroboration they'll report; if they can't get it 'reportable' but believe it to be true they'll often speculate it or put it out with careful caveats...AFAIK we haven't really seen anything beyond "Flames believed it was going to get done", which is a big leap away from renegged.


It really is fascinating to watch this rumour spread with wildfire; no shade on anyone, it's kinda neat to see how people think they've seen multiple reports when they probably actually haven't. I'm sure I've been guilty of this many times myself.

[AC]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Reports? I've been asking and searching but haven't found anything beyond the single post on CP, which respectfully should be considered a 'rumour'. FWIW I believe the poster was given that story, I'm just not sure how accurately it has passed from person to person [to person? to person? etc], and even the OP acknowledges the likely Flames bias in the post.

I'd also reiterate that Steinberg and Francis made it clear that neither attempted to contact Gaudreau's side (except for 1 question in a presser). Balanced insiders reach out in all directions for comment (or no comment) to piece together a puzzle. With enough corroboration they'll report; if they can't get it 'reportable' but believe it to be true they'll often speculate it or put it out with careful caveats...AFAIK we haven't really seen anything beyond "Flames believed it was going to get done", which is a big leap away from renegged.


It really is fascinating to watch this rumour spread with wildfire; no shade on anyone, it's kinda neat to see how people think they've seen multiple reports when they probably actually haven't. I'm sure I've been guilty of this many times myself.

Yes, I think it's fair to say reports. Steinberg and Francis both said they know for a fact the Flames believed a deal was confirmed, and they didn't seem to be relaying the same information/source.

Friedman on 32 Thoughts: "I can say this. The Flames believed there was a point it was going to get done. And I can tell you that other teams believed it was going to get done."

Sure, nothing is concrete because none of these people were involved in the negotiations. But hearing Steinberg and Francis both adamantly state they know for a fact that the contract was imminent is extremely damning, because their sources are obviously going to be people within the Flames management group.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by AC

Yes, I think it's fair to say reports. Steinberg and Francis both said they know for a fact the Flames believed a deal was confirmed, and they didn't seem to be relaying the same information/source.

Friedman on 32 Thoughts: "I can say this. The Flames believed there was a point it was going to get done. And I can tell you that other teams believed it was going to get done."

Sure, nothing is concrete because none of these people were involved in the negotiations. But hearing Steinberg and Francis both adamantly state they know for a fact that the contract was imminent is extremely damning, because their sources are obviously going to be people within the Flames management group.

Deals can fall apart at the last minute.

That doesn't necessarily mean 13 gave an ultimatum and then reneged. That is just one of many possible scenarios.

Reports that the Flames thought they were super-duper close do nothing to validate the ultimatum/reneg rumours.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Deals can fall apart at the last minute.

That doesn't necessarily mean 13 gave an ultimatum and then reneged. That is just one of many possible scenarios.

Reports that the Flames thought they were super-duper close do nothing to validate the ultimatum/reneg rumours.

No “super duper close”. They thought a deal was confirmed. Everything lines up. At some point you have to go with the weight of evidence.

[AC]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Deals can fall apart at the last minute.

That doesn't necessarily mean 13 gave an ultimatum and then reneged. That is just one of many possible scenarios.

Reports that the Flames thought they were super-duper close do nothing to validate the ultimatum/reneg rumours.

Sure, but I disagree.

There are enough comments from that Steinberg/Francis clip to read between the lines. We probably won't get a confirmed official report due to the nature of the negotiations.

"If this was handled professionally then it would just be sour grapes to bitch and moan about him going somewhere else. But the 2 things I keep coming back to: deception and destination."

"I get it, until you have a deal signed you don't have a deal. I heard your earlier talk about it-- I know Elliotte talked about it-- I'm well aware of exactly how it all unfolded. The Calgary Flames believed they had a deal, right near the 11th hour."

He then specifically says no shame on the Flames because they bargained in good faith but had everything pulled out from under them at the 11th hour. He later refers to Gaudreau "yanking the deal at the end".

I mean, that sounds very clear about saying the Gaudreau camp verbally agreed to a deal and reneged.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by AC

He (Eric Francis) then specifically says no shame on the Flames because they bargained in good faith but had everything pulled out from under them at the 11th hour.
.

I can’t believe he said that and didn’t choke. I did when I heard it. I bet it’s kept him up multiple nights, but that’s how confident he was in what he was saying.

[JohnnyB]

I wonder when we hear the opinions of his former teammates start to leak out and how they view Johnny's move.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I wonder when we hear the opinions of his former teammates start to leak out and how they view Johnny's move.

I don’t know if you’ll hear them say anything but I wonder if it changes any of the “if Johnny goes I go” stuff. That implied to me that they were unhappy that the Flames might not offer enough money. But they did.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Deals are not deals until they are signed and registered with the league office. Treliving should be well aware of this as he’s been burned by it in the past.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Deals are not deals until they are signed and registered with the league office. Treliving should be well aware of this as he’s been burned by it in the past.

Of course he’s aware of it. It doesn’t change the fact it was as close to bad faith as possible, or that they thought they had a deal.

[midniteowl]

Has any of Gaudreau's team mates came out in any of the social media to wish him luck? Or are all of his team mates still in shock.

[Jiggy_12]

Still not a peep from Gaudreau addressing Calgary fans, or the team.

The longer that goes the more strange this all gets.

What a bizarre bizarre situation

[CMPunk]

Just so you all can rage a bit more, looks like Johnny is on the latest Spittin Chiclets podcast.

[Heavy Jack]

Yaaaaikes

Absolute train wreck all round on this one.

[AC]

Johnny's episode of Spittin Chiclets is out now:
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR...bi1jaGljbGV0cw

Interview starts at 37:15

I'll update as I listen:

Asked about reflecting on the BoA and what went wrong.
Thought "we" were the better team, but with Connor and Draisaitl were doing ridiculous things every night and missing their best Dman in Tanev. Says it still hurts because he thought they were a really good team and would pull that series win off.

Asked how many teams were actually in the mix for free agency?
3 or 4 teams he knew he wanted to play for. Columbus was high on his list obviously. Day of he was only talking to 2 of the teams and hadn't heard from Columbus so thought he was signing with a different team, until he heard from CBJ at 4pm and told his agent that he wanted to go to Columbus so try and get it done.

In terms of free agency day, are you getting calls from your agent constantly? How stressful is that day?
Says to be honest, he'd never want to do it again because it was so stressful. Suggests maybe it's because of the flat cap but he was surprised he was only talking to 2-3 teams. Said he was trying to get a deal done with the Devils until Columbus called.

Biz jokes he was surprised that news anchor didn't come after him. This one
Johnny laughs and says it was tough to watch.

Whitney asks how tough it was to leave Calgary. Adds he can't imagine it was easy to say no to their offer.
No it was really difficult. A lot of people think he was dragging Calgary along, but he thought about signing in Calgary or going to free agency every day for a month, flip flopping back and forth. It came down to literally the last day. "I love Calgary so much. It's such a great place to play and the fans are great but in that final few hours I thought it was going to best for me to just test free agency. It was a hard decision, but yeah it was a long month and it was one of the hardest things I've had to do in my life to let Calgary know I wasn't going to go back."

Was there one deciding factor on Columbus?
Hums and haws about the 3 guys he knows on the team, doesn't really answer.

Asked about the relaxed market of Columbus compared to Calgary.
Says he's heard Columbus fans are fun to play in front of, but obviously different than Calgary but thinks it will be fun...

Biz asks if Covid and the shutdown rules played a factor.
"No not really. Obviously it was tough with the whole covid thing in Canada getting family to come see us." Wasn't a huge deciding factor. "It was time for me to get a different change of scenery I think. We wanted to play a little bit closer out east and play a little bit closer to family and that was important to us."

Biz asks about the negativity from media members and Calgary fans about leaving and his decision. Were you expecting it and does it affect you deep down given what you've put into that organization?
"Yeah I didn't think I would get it as bad as I have, um, obviously I thought there was going to be some fans not happy, but I didn't think I was going to hear about it as much as I have. Um, and I get it I mean, you know, they're a very passionate fanba-- fan-- they have very passionate fans and um, and they love their Flames and the city of Calgary loves hockey so I understand it's been hard on a lot of people. But I still love that place, I was part of that organization for 12 years, played there for 8 or 9 years and the city was great to me every single time and it sucks having to leave but I wish them all the best and hopefully they can get over it soon here because it's a great place and I really did love playing there.

Asked if he expected him choosing Columbus to blow up as much as it did around the league, being the biggest free agent they've ever signed by far.
No, he didn't expect this at all. Everyone is texting him confused asking "Columbus?" Claims he did his research about the great neighbourhoods, golf, when flying home he'll be back in his bed by midnight instead of 4am like sometimes in Calgary.

Asked about Columbus being a good place with lots of former players still around.
Claims he kept hearing it's a "hidden gem". "Wow this could be a really cool place to play".

Asked about lack of Philly's interest given the obvious connection and assumption.
Repeats it'd always be cool to play for your hometown team, but they didn't have the cap space so he knew they wouldn't be an option.

Did you let your Calgary teammates know you were going to move on?
No.

You didn't talk to one guy?
No. 2 hours before I didn't know. "Half our team is in Sweden and I didn't really have the opportunity to. I just called Brad and at that point it was already 11 at night. It was pretty hard for me, it was pretty emotional. As I said I was there for a long time and it was pretty hard so I kinda just hung out with my wife that night and just tried to figure out who we were going to play for the next day."

Asked about the line with Lindholm and Tkachuk. Have you ever found chemistry like that?
Yeah it was a blast, everyone brought something unique to that line. Reminds him of playing with Arnold and Hayes that year in BC.

Asked about Darryl Sutter. Did you have a great relationship, did he ever get mad at you?
"I mean, he got mad every single day. It didn't matter who you were, 4th liner, 1st liner, scratch player. That's why I really liked playing for him. He expected the same out of everyone. He did a really good job with our team." Says he liked playing for him and he's a great coach.

Says when Darryl was mad, he'd walk out of the locker room and then you'd hear 10 seconds of #### being broken. Happened 2 or 3 times during the year.

Asked what Tkachuk said to him after Johnny signed in Columbus.
He was happy for Johnny, said Columbus reminds him of STL in terms of vibes. Wished they could still play together but said all the best and supper happy for him.

[c.t.ner]

Johnny Hockey needs to spend some of his 9.5 million on some PR lessons. (For the record, I'd be advising him to keep a low profile till things cool down, doing a podcast is the absolute opposite of smart right now)

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by AC

Johnny's episode of Spittin Chiclets is out now:
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR...bi1jaGljbGV0cw

Interview starts at 37:15

I'll update as I listen:

Asked about reflecting on the BoA and what went wrong.
Thought "we" were the better team, but with Connor and Draisaitl were doing ridiculous things every night and missing their best Dman in Tanev. Says it still hurts because he thought they were a really good team and would pull that series win off.

Asked how many teams were actually in the mix for free agency?
3 or 4 teams he knew he wanted to play for. Columbus was high on his list obviously. Day of he was only talking to 2 of the teams and hadn't heard from Columbus so thought he was signing with a different team, until he heard from CBJ at 4pm and told his agent that he wanted to go to Columbus so try and get it done.

In terms of free agency day, are you getting calls from your agent constantly? How stressful is that day?
Says to be honest, he'd never want to do it again because it was so stressful. Suggests maybe it's because of the flat cap but he was surprised he was only talking to 2-3 teams. Said he was trying to get a deal done with the Devils until Columbus called.

Biz jokes he was surprised that news anchor didn't come after him. This one
Johnny laughs and says it was tough to watch.

Whitney asks how tough it was to leave Calgary. Adds he can't imagine it was easy to say no to their offer.
No it was really difficult. A lot of people think he was dragging Calgary along, but he thought about signing in Calgary or going to free agency every day for a month, flip flopping back and forth. It came down to literally the last day. "I love Calgary so much. It's such a great place to play and the fans are great but in that final few hours I thought it was going to best for me to just test free agency. It was a hard decision, but yeah it was a long month and it was one of the hardest things I've had to do in my life to let Calgary know I wasn't going to go back."

Was there one deciding factor on Columbus?
Hums and haws about the 3 guys he knows on the team, doesn't really answer.

Asked about the relaxed market of Columbus compared to Calgary.
Says he's heard Columbus fans are fun to play in front of, but obviously different than Calgary but thinks it will be fun...

Biz asks if Covid and the shutdown rules played a factor.
"No not really. Obviously it was tough with the whole covid thing in Canada getting family to come see us." Wasn't a huge deciding factor. "It was time for me to get a different change of scenery I think. We wanted to play a little bit closer out east and play a little bit closer to family and that was important to us."

So in other words.. He got fed up with the "process". He thouggt he was signing here but it kept going back and forth. I remeber Johnnys last contract he was pissed off for quite awhile after he signed it and recall an interview where he said it was a long difficult process and GIO also weighed in on how difficult it was. It is quite possible Johnny just had enough of the negotiations... Look how quickly he signed with CBJ. Bet those around him were influencing his decision the longer it went on.

[Jiri Hrdina]

That’s what you take away from that?!?!

[robertsfan]

Calgary needs better sushi restaurants.

To be honest, he didn’t sound very bright to me (meatballs on a table cloth, etc.)