[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[Squirrel]

All I continue to think about is that Johnny and his agent punked themselves and now he has 7 years in a city he didn’t want to move to think about it.
I can’t recall a more f’d up free agent situation than what they put together.

He’s probably already planning an excuse to avoid playing their game here next season (January?)

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You believe that Columbus is the organization Johnny wanted to go to the most?

No, I don't. I think he wanted to go to Philly. But I did I identify Columbus as a darkhorse and someone who might be able to keep Gaudreau if a trade could be worked out. Gaudreau just wanted out and wanted to be in the eastern time zone.

Johnny also handled this in a way that tarnished his legacy in Calgary which is almost certainly something he didn’t want despite your claims he got everything he wanted.

I don't think Johnny cared about his legacy in Calgary. If he did, he would have signed in Calgary. Calgary was fun while he was here, but I suspect he won't lose any sleep about what Flames fans or City thinks of him long-term.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Yup. The only mysterious thing is why (reportedly) Gaudreau instructed his agent to make a last-minute counteroffer, and then backed out when the team accepted. And the answer to that mystery will be found between Gaudreau's own ears, not Treliving's, his agent's, or anyone else's.

Source? The CP post said nothing about how/who/why a supposed counter-offer was initiated from 13's camp (because it was allegedly a source within the Flames who wouldn't know that).

I'm still not sure anyone other than CP poster has actually reported the last counter-offer originating from 13's side?

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It wasn’t a twitter account. And it rang completely true when placed alongside the other reports, what Gross said, what Treliving said. Zero people have denied it.

Have Gross or Gaudreau been asked about it? Steinberg and Francis made it clear they hadn't even attempted to contact Gross and between them have lobbed a total of 1 question to Gaudreau.

The nitty gritty details are absolutely key here, and we'll never know them. IMO it's most likely some combination of the Flames misinterpreting/falsely assuming and Gross not being crystal clear enough in this most critical communication. Likely exacerbated by Gross not actually understanding his client well enough (who very likely didn't know what he was doing at all).

For me, Gross is the linchpin here - what was the nature of the supposed ask*, and if it was indeed a formal demand/counter-offer, did he make sure Johnny understood what that meant?

* "If you won't get to 10.5M we're definitely out. If you will, let's keep talking"

I can see how the Flames could hear something like that and believe they are at the 1 yard line. But it's obviously different than "10.5M and we're in".

[Jiri Hrdina]

At that late stage "continuing to talk" wasn't an option. At that point they were making their final offers.
Freidman has stated that there was a moment that day when a lot of people, including other teams, thought the deal was done. I would theorize that is because Johnny's agent told those teams because he too thought it was done.
Johnny pulled the carpet on the Flames and his agent. Sent them all a tumblin'!

[Macman]

How many jerseys did fans buy of Gaudreau, I’ll bet it was a lot and the most popular too.

The negative comments about him being too small and can’t win come from a few fans and not a general consensus of the Flames fan base. I think he should have sat a few days or weeks as a UFA and let things cool off if they got too heated with the Flames, that just shows that he really didn’t want to be here anymore.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

* "If you won't get to 10.5M we're definitely out. If you will, let's keep talking"

That isn't a counteroffer. That's a negotiating tactic. If you're still futzing around with negotiating tactics in the last possible hours of the negotiation, you're doing it wrong.

But it's obviously different than "10.5M and we're in".

That is a counteroffer.

I'm quite sure all the parties involved know the difference.

[AC]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

Found this segment interesting: https://open.spotify.com/episode/48fYvRjnyICF8jCl8waCtb

Think someone else already spoke about how both Steinberg and Francis made interesting comments about how the story isn't over and they heard some absolutely wild things over the last 72 hours.

Speculating on what they said, very much sounds like they had a verbal agreeance on a deal with the Flames and they were minutes away from announcing it.

If true in the appropriate context, that's absolutely wild.

Well worth the listen, thanks for linking to this.

Steinberg and Francis both flat out say they know for a fact the Flames believed they had a deal in place with Gaudreau, which coincides the reports we've heard that the Flames agreed to Gross and Gaudreau's contract demands only for them to break the verbal agreement.

Steinberg says he heard the contract was imminent, minutes away from being official. If nothing else, Johnny (and his family) got cold feet at the last minute and went back on his word. Sounds incredibly unprofessional.

[JohnnyB]

I saw it reported somewhere today, the Athletic maybe (?), that a source from inside the team said Jersey's final offer to Johnny was $10.2M.

Anyways, it's seems pretty clear to me that the only winner in the situation was Columbus. At least they feel like the won the lottery. It was a sub-optimal resolution for everyone else, including the Flames, Gross, Johnny, and likely even Philly.

My guess is that Gross was negotiating on the basis of belief that Johnny actually would sign in Calgary if he got a good offer, otherwise it would have made the most sense to say early on that he was going to test free agency and give interested teams more time to clear cap space and compete against each other in the bidding process. There was no advantage in going down to the wire like they did unless he believed that Johnny would sign an eight-year deal if he got it.

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by AC

Well worth the listen, thanks for linking to this.

Steinberg and Francis both flat out say they know for a fact the Flames believed they had a deal in place with Gaudreau, which coincides the reports we've heard that the Flames agreed to Gross and Gaudreau's contract demands only for them to break the verbal agreement.

Steinberg says he heard the contract was imminent, minutes away from being official. If nothing else, Johnny (and his family) got cold feet at the last minute and went back on his word. Sounds incredibly unprofessional.

Wow. If that is how it went down, I would be incredibly choked as the Flames. Shame on the agent for allowing that to happen. Hope he loses a ton of credit with teams around the league...GM community I imagine is pretty small and tight knit...can't see them allowing that lack of integrity to stick around.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Source? The CP post said nothing about how/who/why a supposed counter-offer was initiated from 13's camp (because it was allegedly a source within the Flames who wouldn't know that).

I'm still not sure anyone other than CP poster has actually reported the last counter-offer originating from 13's side?



Have Gross or Gaudreau been asked about it? Steinberg and Francis made it clear they hadn't even attempted to contact Gross and between them have lobbed a total of 1 question to Gaudreau.

The nitty gritty details are absolutely key here, and we'll never know them. IMO it's most likely some combination of the Flames misinterpreting/falsely assuming and Gross not being crystal clear enough in this most critical communication. Likely exacerbated by Gross not actually understanding his client well enough (who very likely didn't know what he was doing at all).

For me, Gross is the linchpin here - what was the nature of the supposed ask*, and if it was indeed a formal demand/counter-offer, did he make sure Johnny understood what that meant?

* "If you won't get to 10.5M we're definitely out. If you will, let's keep talking"

I can see how the Flames could hear something like that and believe they are at the 1 yard line. But it's obviously different than "10.5M and we're in".

No one would take that * line seriously nor would anyone make it. If you say that and the Flames say “OK, 10.5 is our new number” and you come back and say “Thanks, we now want 11” that’s just stupid. Make an ask.

Plus, as was said, they were at the last offer stage anyway.

[AC]

Originally Posted by simmer2

Wow. If that is how it went down, I would be incredibly choked as the Flames. Shame on the agent for allowing that to happen. Hope he loses a ton of credit with teams around the league...GM community I imagine is pretty small and tight knit...can't see them allowing that lack of integrity to stick around.

To be fair, they also point out that it was in Lewis Gross' best interest for Johnny to sign the 8 year deal. Chances are he believed Johnny was true to his word when they presented their "ultimatum" contract demands.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by AC

Well worth the listen, thanks for linking to this.

Steinberg and Francis both flat out say they know for a fact the Flames believed they had a deal in place with Gaudreau, which coincides the reports we've heard that the Flames agreed to Gross and Gaudreau's contract demands only for them to break the verbal agreement.

Steinberg says he heard the contract was imminent, minutes away from being official. If nothing else, Johnny (and his family) got cold feet at the last minute and went back on his word. Sounds incredibly unprofessional.

The insider story here was way too detailed and there was zero reason for that poster to come up with it - it was not a rumour elsewhere before then. And then it got backed up by that clip, Gross’ statement, Teliving’s presser and Johnny’s behavior. JG is kinda lucky it was Treliving and not Burke, who would have been more blunt.

[Squirrel]

Good thing that playoff wagon wrap didn’t get finished in time with Johnny on the hood

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

No, I don't. I think he wanted to go to Philly. But I did I identify Columbus as a darkhorse and someone who might be able to keep Gaudreau if a trade could be worked out. Gaudreau just wanted out and wanted to be in the eastern time zone.



I don't think Johnny cared about his legacy in Calgary. If he did, he would have signed in Calgary. Calgary was fun while he was here, but I suspect he won't lose any sleep about what Flames fans or City thinks of him long-term.

You sure? He looked visibly uncomfortable answering questions about his departure from Calgary when asked about it at his press conference.

15:25 of the press conference:

:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c8-X9fZCjKA&t=1571s

To me, that reaction is of a guy who has some things on his conscious. If that isn’t a tell, I guess I don’t know what is.

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by AC

To be fair, they also point out that it was in Lewis Gross' best interest for Johnny to sign the 8 year deal. Chances are he believed Johnny was true to his word when they presented their "ultimatum" contract demands.

Fair point.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by AC

Well worth the listen, thanks for linking to this.

Steinberg and Francis both flat out say they know for a fact the Flames believed they had a deal in place with Gaudreau, which coincides the reports we've heard that the Flames agreed to Gross and Gaudreau's contract demands only for them to break the verbal agreement.

Steinberg says he heard the contract was imminent, minutes away from being official. If nothing else, Johnny (and his family) got cold feet at the last minute and went back on his word. Sounds incredibly unprofessional.

His wife likely gave an ultimatum once she learned that Gaudreau was actually going to sign with the Flames. It's one thing to talk about wanting to move away, or staying, his wife probably expected him to leave for Philly and told him how she would respect whatever decision he made. Once it became firm that Calgary was actually being selected on, she put her hard foot down as she expected him to chose an option best for her, and he didn't.

Guys can be wishy washy and procrastinate on making tough decisions (I've been wishy washy on simple decisions like what ice cream flavour to get). I am sure Gaudreau genuinly was aching and hurting about this decision till the last minute, and even as he signed with the Blue Jackets.

People can argue about his wife not being the main deciding factor, but it quite literally the only thing that causes the chain of events to make sense, especially if the NJ Devils offer is true. At that point, as Calgary was already off the table, NJ was also likely removed as an option by his wife even though it was for more money then Columbus.

In the end, it's awful for Flames fans, but we have to move on without Gaudreau, and it may be for the best.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You sure? He looked visibly uncomfortable answering questions about his departure from Calgary when asked about it at his press conference.

15:25 of the press conference:

:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c8-X9fZCjKA&t=1571s

To me, that reaction is of a guy who has some things on his conscious. If that isn’t a tell, I guess I don’t know what is.

He went from to D: in a second and looked like he was about to bawl out as the question was being asked. His demeanour changed and took him several minutes to snap out of it.

He looked ok for a few minute until again his demeanour changed right at 22:10 when he heard the name Eric Francis, knowing full well what the question would be before he would ask.

There's lot of emotions there.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by AC

Well worth the listen, thanks for linking to this.

Steinberg and Francis both flat out say they know for a fact the Flames believed they had a deal in place with Gaudreau, which coincides the reports we've heard that the Flames agreed to Gross and Gaudreau's contract demands only for them to break the verbal agreement.

Steinberg says he heard the contract was imminent, minutes away from being official. If nothing else, Johnny (and his family) got cold feet at the last minute and went back on his word. Sounds incredibly unprofessional.

Agreed, thanks for posting that link. No mention of the purported “ultimatum” but Francis and Steinberg are close enough to the organization to verify that a 8-year deal was in fact imminent. Absolutely wild that this is how it went down.

I tend to think it was less about deception or being malicious, as Johnny seemed pretty shook by what happened. But saying there was indecision is absolutely fair, and it cost the Flames in the end.

Will be fascinating to hear what might come out (because I agree there is a lot more to the story that we may never know); from the dealings between Gross and Treliving, and what was discussed within Johnny’s family in the days and hours leading up to July 13.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Firebot

His wife likely gave an ultimatum once she learned that Gaudreau was actually going to sign with the Flames. It's one thing to talk about wanting to move away, or staying, his wife probably expected him to leave for Philly and told him how she would respect whatever decision he made. Once it became firm that Calgary was actually being selected on, she put her hard foot down as she expected him to chose an option best for her, and he didn't.

Guys can be wishy washy and procrastinate on making tough decisions (I've been wishy washy on simple decisions like what ice cream flavour to get). I am sure Gaudreau genuinly was aching and hurting about this decision till the last minute, and even as he signed with the Blue Jackets.

People can argue about his wife not being the main deciding factor, but it quite literally the only thing that causes the chain of events to make sense, especially if the NJ Devils offer is true. At that point, as Calgary was already off the table, NJ was also likely removed as an option by his wife even though it was for more money then Columbus.

In the end, it's awful for Flames fans, but we have to move on without Gaudreau, and it may be for the best.

In the long run I think Flames fames will be happy she put her foot down.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

In the long run I think Flames fans will be happy

This may be the boldest prediction I've ever seen. Taken on average, I don't think Flames fans have the capacity to be happy about anything concerning the team.