If we make up the words that were used, then ya, it sounds bad.
Imagine you've interviewed for a job and they offer you $76k and 2 weeks vacation. You ask the hiring manager: can you get to $80k and 3 weeks? If the answer is yes, no hiring manager assumes the deal is done and starts informing the other candidates. No, they understand that you may need a little bit more time to consider the actual final offer. If the answer was no, $78k is the best we can do, then they expect you'll still consider it and decide accordingly.
Of course, if you say: if you can get to $80k and 3 weeks then I'm in! then it's totally different. But with a life altering decision like this, you don't just assume the "then I'm in!" part unless it was actually said, which I very much doubt.
In your first example, have there been several days if not weeks of back and forth negotiations and the firm you’re dealing with has put everything on hold because you are their most important asset? And you have had years to decide whether you want to work with them and the money it would take? And you know the organization intimately and no further info is required?
There is no good reason why you’d need just a little more time.
Did JG and his rep negotiate in bad faith? It certainly appears so by most reports.
Did they, reportedly, agree with the Flames to 10.5 mil per annum over 8 years and then reneg, with no communication over 10 hours to the Flames management/owner that this was happening ?
Did JG not know Meredith’s feelings well prior to , reportedly, agreeing to the Flames offer? Had they not discussed her wishes to not remain in Calgary?
Something very rotten about that process, as it has been widely reported, and it appears to be completely on JG and his agent.
Sure. I have all the same questions.
But what does that have to do with getting dumped? They’re not related in the slightest.
It’s clear the destination he wanted was Philly and it didn’t work out.
Then he probably had to go down the list:
Rangers: No Cap Space
Washington: No Cap Space
Islanders: No Cap Space
Jersey: Cap Space
Pittsburgh: No Cap Space
So the only real option they had of the teams listed was New Jersey. And there seems to be some reason they didn’t love the Devils or their offer. Newark isn’t the greatest and maybe they didn’t want to raise their kid in Metro New York.
So if Philly (and most of the metro teams closer to Philly) don’t even make an offer, and you aren’t sold on what the Devils put on the table then you might have to go to the next tranche of teams that are in the mid to eastern US and closer to home.
Buffalo: 380 Miles to Salem
Boston: 340 Miles
Detroit: 580 Miles
Carolina: 395 Miles
Columbus: 460 Miles
Boston didn’t have cap either, and of the other 4 teams Columbus might actually be the best location to start a family.
In the end a Metro team was probably preferred too, since it means more trips to Philly and playing road trips in that New York area a lot more, which is what limits the flights for Johnny.
Just because it’s not Philly doesn’t mean it’s not closer to home. I have a feeling that if it was Boston there wouldn’t be people saying “it’s not close enough to home”, the fact that is was Columbus is what makes it more jarring.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 07-15-2022 at 10:38 PM.
It’s clear the destination he wanted was Philly and it didn’t work out.
Then he probably had to go down the list:
Rangers: No Cap Space
Washington: No Cap Space
Islanders: No Cap Space
Jersey: Cap Space
Pittsburgh: No Cap Space
So the only real option they had of the teams listed was New Jersey. And there seems to be some reason they didn’t love the Devils or their offer. Newark isn’t the greatest and maybe they didn’t want to raise their kid in Metro New York.
So if Philly (and most of the metro teams closer to Philly) don’t even make an offer, and you aren’t sold on what the Devils put on the table then you might have to go to the next tranche of teams that are in the mid to eastern US and closer to home.
Buffalo: 380 Miles
Boston: 340 Miles
Detroit: 580 Miles
Carolina: 395 Miles
Columbus: 460 Miles
In the end a Metro team was probably preferred too, since it means more trips to Philly and playing road trips in that New York area a lot more, which is what limits the flights for Johnny.
Just because it’s not Philly doesn’t mean it’s not closer to home. I have a feeling that if it was Boston there wouldn’t be people saying “it’s not close enough to home”, the fact that is was Columbus is what makes it more jarring.
Good lord, these “miles” thing is a joke.
In a plane it’s nothing. Johnnys family isn’t driving to visit.
Johnnys wife wanted to go east.
Johnny overplayed his hand
Lied to flames
Left anyway
Stuck in Columbus of which he knows nothing about although he tries to sell you on it.
Career purgatory
Fin.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Royle9 For This Useful Post:
I honestly think it means nothing. A couple hours once in a whole, wow.
Such a lame excuse.
Pre-Covid I would have agreed with you.
But Covid lockdowns and travel restrictions make being in the same country and in closer proximity more important for people.
My in-laws were in Ontario at the start of COVID, after 12 months of not being able to see their grandkids due to Covid restrictions they decided to move west to where their kids had settled down.
Been a lot easier now for them to live 10 minute away in the same city as we are, and in 8 months have already made the drive two times and flown twice to see their other grand kids in Prince George (an 8 hour drive).
So I think you downplay the driving distance. 7 hours is a very drivable distance, for his family and her family to go see their grandkid if they wanted to.
Honestly sometimes travelling with a toddler I feel like driving is easier…having to pack all the crap you need for your kid into a plane and then drag it through the airport is a pain. Throwing it in the car is easier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinit47
Boy did Iginla spoil us.
This is just proof that time heals all wounds.
There were very similar discussions about Iginla screwing us when he left. IIRC I remember some people being disappointed in how he handled the press conference when he left too.
“He gave us 4 teams on his No trade list and then backed out and would only wave for Pittsburgh”
“He lied to the Flames and screwed our return by only accepting a trade to one team”
Especially when he then ended up signing in Boston in the offseason after rejecting the trade, boy were there a lot of angry people back then.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 07-15-2022 at 11:14 PM.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
I watch that Tim and Sid interview and to me it really does feel genuine that this decision tore him apart.
He almost starts to tear up every time he has to talk about Calgary.
I think he thought this is what was best for his family from a logical perspective, but it certainly doesn’t feel like this is what he wanted from an emotional perspective.
I do find it interesting that he mentioned his mom and his wife in terms of who helped make the decision. I think we needed Guy in the room, feel like he would have been a booster for Calgary and a chance to run it back next year.
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
Nobody is arguing Gaudreau didn't meet his contractual obligations, which seems to be the point people are bringing up to defend his actions.
This city and the Flames were incredibly good to Gaudreau, and welcomed his family with open arms. He was treated very well.
On the way out the door he turned around and flipped us the bird.
At this point I'm not mad at Gaudreau, I'm just disappointed.
Boy did Iginla spoil us.
The same Iginla who turned the dressing room into a country club his last couple seasons? Who when he finally agreed to a trade at the deadline and submitted a list of four teams for Feaster to negotiate with, changed his mind at literally the last hour and said actually no, there’s only one team I’ll accept a trade to, scuppering the deal with Boston and completely hamstringing Feaster’s negotiating position with the Penguins? That Iginla?
Iginla’s a good guy. But he was as ruthlessly selfish as other pro athletes when it suited him.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 07-15-2022 at 11:17 PM.
The Following 18 Users Say Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
In your first example, have there been several days if not weeks of back and forth negotiations and the firm you’re dealing with has put everything on hold because you are their most important asset? And you have had years to decide whether you want to work with them and the money it would take? And you know the organization intimately and no further info is required?
There is no good reason why you’d need just a little more time.
Obviously we don't know the specifics...but if it was weeks of me saying "please give me your best offer and I'll consider it", and the firm waits and waits and waits and won't do it until I give them a minimum target, then ya, I'd still take a bit of time once I finally know what is actually in front of me...especially if there was some reason that I couldn't explore alternatives until a certain deadline and they had walked me right up to it. It's not my fault they adopted a bad strategy.
Which seems to me most likely what happened here (to some degree). The Flames simply misread...time travelling back 1-2 weeks ago it didn't necessarily seem like a terrible strategy (at least whatever we thought we knew), though many of us wondered if they should put forward their best offer with a soft* deadline shortly before the draft (ie. we can't guarantee this offer will stay on the table beyond __ o'clock if other opportunities arise). Hard to say if it would have worked any better, but at least people couldn't bitch about Johnny letting the Flames handcuff themselves (though I'm sure they'd bitch that they should have waited until the last day for their final offer instead).
The same Iginla who turned the dressing room into a country club his last couple seasons? Who when he finally agreed to a trade at the deadline and submitted a list of four teams for Feaster to negotiate with, changed his mind at literally the last hour and said actually no, there’s only one team I’ll accept a trade to, scuppering the deal with Boston and completely hamstringing Feaster’s negotiating position with the Penguins? That Iginla?
Iginla’s a good guy. But he was as ruthlessly selfish as other pro athletes when it suited him.
To be fair, Feaster was going to lose that trade no matter what team he traded with. #### he was a terrible GM.
__________________
I hate just about everyone and just about everything.
My guess is the agent repeatedly told JG he was confident the Flyers would be able to get out from under JVR's salary via trade these past weeks or days, even up to the last hours, even if the agent was taking a wild guess at the end. Flyers didn't want to or were able to sweeten the deal for a team to take on JVR's $7MM salary and were thus stuck.
It won't be immediate for the optics but my guess is JG quietly moves on from Lewis Gross in the months or year ahead.
