Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[expatflame]

^^ I wonder what Colorado would be willing to give up if hypothetically, we got the 1st and they were say 3rd. A 2nd or 3rd rounder?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

In modern times taking a defensemen number 1 overall has not worked out that well. There isn't any impact defensemen taken 1st overall. Hamrlik, Jovonoski, Chris Phillips are the best you do. In all drafts where they were taken first overall the drafts have been relatively week aside from 1. The 2006 draft was very strong. The top 5 was Eric Johnson, Jordon Staal, Jonathon toews, Nikolas Backstrom, and Phil Kessel.

I take all 5 over Johnson now. For me to take a defensemen first overall he would need to be head and shoulders above the rest. In this draft the consensus is that the top 3 are all close. So I take the forwards over the defensemen.

People overrate the historical argument. Jones is not Hamrlik, Phillips, Jovonovski or E. Johnson. He is a unique prospect. You have to evaluate him based on his game, not on how well former defensemen taken high have worked out.

I think people turn to the historical argument when they don't have much information to go on. But you don't make drafting decisions based on it. You have to base your decision on Jones's game and how well you think he projects 5 years from now.

Jones has the potential to be a franchise defenseman. His skating and mobility are awesome for his size and he doesn't have some of the drawbacks that Bouwmeester has. I'm sick of hearing how we shouldn't even consider him strictly because player X, Y and Z taken high didn't turn into franchise defensemen. Watch him play and evaluate him, or research his game and make your mind up from there. But to write him off because you don't like how E. Johnson or Hamrlik or Jovo or Phillips turned out is extremely silly thinking.

History may repeat itself in a broad sense but that doesn't mean Jones is E. Johnson.

The other argument against him that I've seen in this thread that is shortsighted and poor is that argument that d-men take longer and we need a star fast so don't take him. Well he's going to play in the NHL probably right away. And I don't think it'll take him long to become an impact defenseman.

The only argument against Jones that I buy into is that because he's American he may at some point be more willing to desert the Flames to go play for an American team than a Canadian or Scandanavian would. That is the only thing that at all downgrades him in my opinion.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Teroy

We need a Centre. MacKinnon is our best bet. We need a big, skilled sniper.

True. And yet MacKinnon isn't particularly big.

And yet we also need a #1 d-man. And a franchise goalie. And a 1st line winger.

We have needs all over the place.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

As for Seth Jones BPA... if MacKinnon/Druoin are better players, by all means, go with them. If Seth Jones is BPA, go with him. Thats all I'm saying, go BPA. The Flames have always said they go BPA, every other scout and GM always say they go BPA. Its a little weird seeing that people here are saying to draft by position rather then BPA. We have no idea what our team's needs are in 3 years, nor does anyone else... so thus, BPA.

I agree with best player available philosophy.

However in this case we may have a rare situation in which the top few prospects are extremely close and therefore you can break ties by drafting by position.

If the Flames feel one of the guys is ahead of the others they should take him regardless of position. If they feel it is too close to call then I would hope for a C or a D-man.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Which of those were centres?

Tkaczuk. Saprykin was listed as a C/LW at the time he was drafted.

[GGG]

Deleted

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

True. And yet MacKinnon isn't particularly big.

And yet we also need a #1 d-man. And a franchise goalie. And a 1st line winger.

We have needs all over the place.

Many posters on this board are conditioned to think that getting a #1center should be our #1 priority, but as they say in The Wire: the Game dun changed. Since we've begun the rebuild & traded our best forward, best defenceman and could imminently lose our best goalie I think it's fair to say BPA is the only way to go. We actually have some good young centermen coming through the ranks for once, and while I'd be over the moon to get a new Nieuwendyk we cannot ignore that we have glaring holes at all positions (except LW)

Jones is reported to be 'more than NHL ready'. Right-sided, big, smart, fast, tough franchise defenceman. Yes please. Colorado & Florida have the best chance of picking him, barring a minor miracle, but if he fell in our laps it would be absolutely idiotic not to take him as he fills a pretty major organisational need.

Nichushkin could well be a better prospect than any of the other forwards, but the KHL risk factor has seen his stock decrease. If he's still available at #8-10 I would strongly consider packaging the Pittsburgh & St Louis picks to move up, but it's very wise not to use a top 5 pick on him when there are so many good options available.

Regarding Drouin, my only reservation on taking him before Mackinnon is that our ONLY organisational strength currently is small, very skilled left-shooting LWers. He definitely considers himself a center & he would be a great pick, but we would have a logjam at all levels of our organisation at LW and very little depth anywhere else.

Mackinnon is the best pick for us because, though he's a center he is right-sided (relatively rare asset) and he can play RW naturally. If you look at our entire franchise we have one legit top 6 Right Wing in Stempniak, and no one else anywhere that projects. There's also a good chance he drops to #3 or 4 which is likely where we will pick thanks to Colorada and Florida sucking harder than anyone has sucked since the Oilers.

In summary, our draft strategy in the first round should be as follows:

-BPA with first pick (Jones, Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Monahan, Lindholm, Nichushkin, Nurse)
-no goalie in the first round (I'm taking to YOU, Feaster)
-prioritise right-sided C, RW & D
-prioritise top-6/first D-pairing players 6' or above with later picks (Gauthier, Nichushkin, Mantha, Ristolainen)
-deal from our only position of depth (LW) to acquire good assets elsewhere (Tangs/Cammy/Glenny could be tempting bait to acquire more picks; packaged with the late first to move up; packaged with a first to acquire top NHL talent)

Bring in the draft already.

[loob job]

Tonights a big game, we need to lose to take over last........can't believe I'm writing this.

[iamca]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I agree with best player available philosophy.

However in this case we may have a rare situation in which the top few prospects are extremely close and therefore you can break ties by drafting by position.

If the Flames feel one of the guys is ahead of the others they should take him regardless of position. If they feel it is too close to call then I would hope for a C or a D-man.

The Flames first choice needs to be the center that has eluded this team for over a decade. Everyone complains about not having a number one center, no depth at the center position, and the GM has shown desperation by overpaying for a third line center.

Now that there is an opportunity to draft a top center that's what this team needs to do.

[neo45]

Like most years, I see very little difference between drafting 1st and drafting 3rd overall. Definitely not enough to cheer for losses against the Avs. Drouin could easily be the best player from this draft and could be available at 3

[FlamesAddiction]

Where would you guys rank Mackinnon, Drouin and Barkov (obviously just potential at this time) among recent past top forwards drafted?

Stamkos
Malkin
Kane
Duchesne
Toews
Crosby
Yakupov
Nugent-Hopkins
Sequin
Hall
Kessel
Galchenyuk
Landeskog
Huberdeau
Tavares
Ovechkin
Ryan

Would you say that either Mackinnon, Drouin or Barkov would be one of the top 5 out of this group? (My top 5 would be Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Tavares, and Ovechkin).

[saillias]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Where would you guys rank Mackinnon, Drouin and Barkov (obviously just potential at this time) among recent past top forwards drafted?

Stamkos
Malkin
Kane
Duchesne
Toews
Crosby
Yakupov
Nugent-Hopkins
Sequin
Hall
Kessel
Galchenyuk
Landeskog
Huberdeau
Tavares

Would you say that either Mackinnon, Drouin or Barkov would be one of the top 5 out of this group? (My top 4 would be Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos and Tavares... I am tempted to say Hall is #5 excluding this year's class).

Ovechkin?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by saillias

Ovechkin?

I meant for 2005 to be the cutoff, but then I included Malkin (I thought he was drafted later for some reason), so I added Ovechkin (and Ryan).

It doesn't need to be completely comprehensive though. I am just trying to get a feel for where people think this year's class will fall in say 5 years. (ie. Do people think any of them will be in the top 5 forwards drafted in the first round between 2004 and 2013?)

[ComixZone]

at the end of the draft, so long as we end up with one of Jones, Drouin, Mackinnon or Barkov - I'll be happy. Drouin is the one I want "the least", but when it comes down to it - this team needs high end youngsters at every position, so as long as we get 1 of those 4, it's a step in the right direction.

[Mith]

Any of the top 4 will be centerpieces for the team for the next decade, but none of them are a Crosby caliber.

The whole Mackinnon/Drouin situation i feel like is a bit of a landmine. Drouin has hands for miles and tremendous vision, Mackinnon is more of a put the puck in the net kind of guy.

If we hung on to Tanguay for a few years, Mackinnon could gel with him really well going forward. Drouin is a self-titled playmaker, and that's what you'll probably get with him (Albiet a great one).

The only problem with picking Drouin as I see it (I think he'll be a superstar) is that he won't have anyone on this team to put the puck in the net for him. He's a left wing, and our top goal scoring prospect in Baertschi is also a LW, so it's a bit of a mismatch for the flames.

Still, I agree we take the BPA. If the flames sit in 1st overall this draft, you take jones and don't look back. ESPECIALLY since our defense depth is -awful-. If it's 2nd or 3rd overall, you take whichever of Drouin or Mackinnon is still available.

I seriously doubt the flames end up lower than 3rd, so you get one of those 3, and no matter what you'll be good going forward.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by kn

Article on Drouin... sorry if it has been already been posted:

Drouin admits that while MacKinnon is the pure sniper, he is more the shifty playmaker.

"I don't go out and hit people, but look for open space and find my linemates," Drouin said. "It's easy to play with a guy like Nathan. He's got speed like a horse and finds that open area to make things happen."


http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...site-Draft2013

Considering it's an article on Drouin, the quote you provided makes me even more certain that I want to see Mackinnon drafted over him. I'd be happy with either though.

[SuperMatt18]

I watch these videos of Drouin and he reminds me of Patrick Kane. Crazy hands, good shot, will be a top forward at the NHL level.

However I watch MacKinnon and he looks like Toews. His offensive skills aren't flashy but they are effective, he plays a strong 200ft game, plays physical for his size, and has all-world speed.

If we are aiming towards building a stronger identity and style of play I would prefer MacKinnon.

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I think it a bit silly to expect a draft eligible player to be the best in the world at his position against players 1-2 years older than him. Serious question, has a draft eligible player EVER been the most impressive player at his position in the World Juniors? Not that I can recall. If he had outshone every defensemen in the World Juniors I think you'd expect him to be the best defensive prospect in 30 years.

Jones was really, really impressive for his age at the WJC. The USA had a very good defense and Trouba is a great prospect (perhaps should have been the highest defensemen taken last year ahead of Murray).

By "best defensive prospect in 10 years" people are talking about how good he'll be in the NHL 5 years from now. The fact he didn't outshine every single 18 and 19 year old in WJC doesn't change his future outlook.

Out of thanks but wanted to say great posts. This thread is maybe the only thing keeping me excited about flames hockey. (looks like you're excited too, what was that like 7 posts in a row?)

[Rapidfire999]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Where would you guys rank Mackinnon, Drouin and Barkov (obviously just potential at this time) among recent past top forwards drafted?

Stamkos
Malkin
Kane
Duchesne
Toews
Crosby
Yakupov
Nugent-Hopkins
Sequin
Hall
Kessel
Galchenyuk
Landeskog
Huberdeau
Tavares
Ovechkin
Ryan

Would you say that either Mackinnon, Drouin or Barkov would be one of the top 5 out of this group? (My top 4 would be Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos and Tavares... I am tempted to say Hall is #5 excluding this year's class).

That's an elite Top 4 already and if one of them is in the top 5 then Calgary will be doing well for next decade. Suprised Toews isn't in your top 5/6 because I would love to have him as a Flame. Big, 2-way, can dangle, shootout wiz, can win faceoffs, and plays with heart each and every shift.

I'd like to see how good stamkos would be w/o st louis feeding him those pucks.

[FlamesAddiction]

I keep waffling between Drouin, Mackinnon and Barkov.

The fact Barkov is scoring at almost a ppg pace in the Finnish league as a 17 year old, is pretty amazing. Does anyone know how rare something like that is? I think he is the youngest player on the team by like 6 or 7 years. Watching highlights, he looks like he handles the physical game really well too.