Too many [mod edit]: people with quads, 4x4s...

[PsYcNeT]

I don't think anyone but country club bums would argue that golf courses are supreme waste of space...and this is coming from an avid golfer.

Fact is, this is Canada, where no city is close to each other, and where there are stretches of highway you can drive on and not pass civilization for up to 2 hours, unlike the States where you are in a new county every 15 minutes. (save Nevada)

[TurnedTheCorner]

Nuke em all and let god sort it out I say.

[Superfraggle]

I was very much in the anti-ATV camp until I read Karsten Heuer's Walking the Big Wild. He ran across a group of ATVers and was surprised to discover that they cared deeply about their environment just like him (a hiker). The guys who stay on previously made trails and are just out to enjoy the environment like the rest of us are fine by me. It's the idiots who create their own trails and destroy more than necessary that are the big problem.

Absolutely the creation of trails for 4x4ing or hiking is damaging to the environment. Continued use of those same trails is too, although less so. And 4x4ing of any kind is more harmful than most hiking. It's all about where you draw the line, though. Me, I like to hike where there aren't people or trails, doing minimal impact, which is quickly and easily repaired by nature itself (since there aren't dozens of people following the same track). But that doesn't work with large amounts of people. So doing the damage inherent in creating the trails actually lessens the long-term impact on the area. I figure, as long as you're staying on the trails and cleaning up after yourselves, you're ok by me, hiker or ATVer. It's the idiots leaving garbage, widening trails by walking on the sides, cutting across switchbacks for a shortcut, etc. who bug me and who are the real problem, IMO.

[Reggie Dunlop]

I'm actually surprised Ted Morton is concerned about Mother Earth, as I am certain he is not of this world.

[troutman]

Could we not designate areas for this kind of thing east of the foothills?

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by 4X4

At least we don't put up fences to keep animals out.

what kind of golf course has a fence capable of keeping animals out? not many. wildlife are welcome guests for most golf courses.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by troutman

Could we not designate areas for this kind of thing east of the foothills?

Maclean creek is already designated for that.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by redforever

And that is the gist of the problem. The wilderness is being ruined and no longer is in pristine shape.

i think we should bulldoze your house and return the lot to the pristine wilderness it used to be.

and all those farms?? lets get rid of those. Back to the roaming Buffalo days. Why should ATVers etc not be given space to play with their toys.

And no i am not one of those random campers, don't own a ATV or go offraoding. I just don't see whats wrong with it. the fact they have busted up 0.000000001% (plus or minus a few zeros) or Albertas natural outdoors means that it should be outlawed?

[Dion]

The McLean Creek area is developing a reputation as a rowdy campground.
Extra RCMP have been on duty all weekend long to keep campers under control.

"We've taken everything - switchblades to golf clubs to baseball bats to pellet rifles to bear spray, all sort of weapons - away from people. It seems they think it's the natural thing to bring with them," says Bill Eubank, Cochrane RCMP.

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/RTGAMA...calgary.ctv.ca

[Ozy_Flame]

For the few people I know that go out there and participate in the 'festivities' of camping and 4x4'ing, and from the pictures they show me, I have to admit that they aren't exactly the most civilized bunch. It's very much a lifestyle choice and unfortunately I wish they'd be more prudent about how they treat the evironment. I'm not classifying all people who do that as bad people and I'm sure some do their part to keep it clean, but there are, routinely, bad apples that ruin it for others, especially in that area.

[troutman]

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...122823&k=96629

Authorities were also busy in McLean Creek off-roading area south of Bragg Creek, where police were investigating an assault that seriously injured a man.

STARS air ambulance flew to the McLean Creek area twice in two days -- the most recent trip occurring about 9 a.m. to pick up a 35-year-old man who had suffered a serious beating during the night.

Foothills Regional EMS said the man suffered a possible head injury. STARS spokesman Bart Goemans said the man was in stable condition when he was flown to hospital in Calgary.

On Saturday night, a 24-year-old man broke the femur in his right leg while trying to jump his motorcycle over a bank near McLean Creek.


I wonder what % of people in these spots are illegally impaired? Be honest.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by redforever

Maclean creek is already designated for that.

That's not east of the foothills. If all these folks need is a mud bog, can't large areas be set-aside for this on the prairie?

No one has mentioned it here yet, but it is the noise pollution that bothers me, just as much as the damage to the environment.

[Clarkey]

This topic infuriates me.

I have seen pristine crown land absolutely ruined for good by these inbred red-neck degenerates. They chew up the ground, drive through creeks and rivers, wash their trucks in the water, leave all kinds of crap, cut down trees, make all kinds of noise, shoot guns dangerously and even squat for months with dumpy trailers as if they own the land. That's not behaviour that signifies loving nature.

Relegate these a-holes to one designated area. Waiporous would be a good one because it is already completely destroyed. Unfortunately these insidious destructors are creeping further and further out into areas that I hold very close.

Trying to argue with one of them is futile as none of them see anything wrong with what they do.

[Clarkey]

Oh yeah and I should add that I'm not an old fart either, I'm in my 20's.

[transplant99]

I have seen pristine crown land absolutely ruined for good by these inbred red-neck degenerates.

Way to paint a group of people with a broad brush.

Not all off-road enthusiasts are in any way like this. They are just like you but happen to share a different hobby.

They chew up the ground, drive through creeks and rivers, wash their trucks in the water

What do you wash your vehicle with.....milk?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

Relegate these a-holes to one designated area. Waiporous would be a good one because it is already completely destroyed. Unfortunately these insidious destructors are creeping further and further out into areas that I hold very close.

Trying to argue with one of them is futile as none of them see anything wrong with what they do.

Lets not forget the extra tax dollars that are spent so the RCMP can monitor these events on long weekends

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Dan02

1. i think we should bulldoze your house and return the lot to the pristine wilderness it used to be.

and all those farms?? lets get rid of those. Back to the roaming Buffalo days. 2. Why should ATVers etc not be given space to play with their toys.

And no i am not one of those random campers, don't own a ATV or go offraoding. I just don't see whats wrong with it. the fact they have busted up 0.000000001% (plus or minus a few zeros) or Albertas natural outdoors means that it should be outlawed?

1. First of all, I dont live on a "lot", I live in the country, on a quarter section of land, God's backyard is how I like to describe it. AND, we intend to keep it that way. Most of our quarter section is what you call "virgin" mixed forest, in other words, it has not been broken. We treat our land with RESPECT.

2. They are given spaces to play with their toys, and look at what has happened? What has happened in Maclean Creek already? RCMP and STARS have been called in countless times already, the first weekend things have really been open to the public. And Waprous has a terrible history.

Not only do these people not respect the others using these areas, they dont respect the areas either. They become festering boils to look at and to go to.

[troutman]

Is there a provincial association for the 4X4 crowd? I think they need to work quickly if they don't want to lose the privileges they have now. Some kind of publicity campaign to clean up the act of the problem 4X4ers. If they don't, I think enough people are upset about this, and pressure will be put on the government to ban these vehicles from the foothills and mountain parks.

They need to promote ethical and responsible use of land (like fish and game groups).

Under the federal Fisheries Act,

• No person may damage fish habitat without prior authorization (see section 35); and
• No person may pollute water frequented by fish (see section 36)

These sections of the Act are for the conservation and protection of fish habitat. They apply to all Canadian waters including, for example, rivers, streams, ditches, lakes, estuaries, salt marshes, coastal waters, and marine offshore areas. They also apply to work on areas that are not always under water, such as shorelines, riverbanks, and floodplains, even on privately owned land.

[Kjesse]

http://www.aohva.com/

[4X4]

Wow. The way some of you guys are talking really aggrivates me.

Dion. Extra tax dollars? Up yours, man. How many of you holier than thou yappers own boats? Do you operate your boat on water? Well did you know that you're damaging the environment by doing that? Spilling gas and causing a ruckus with your evinrude 55? Do you know that there are a select few morons that operate their boats under the influence? The goddamn RCMP has to patrol the shuswap lakes to keep you idiot boat owners under control?

The fu**ing media jumps on the bad stories and you sheep believe that all 4x4 enthusiasts are a bunch of alcoholic rednecks just a hootin an hollarin and knocking over trees and destroying land.
And on that note, you people still haven't givin me a valid explaination as to how driving over mud destroys it. Its mud. Dirt. A creek.
Is your problem garbage? You don't like garbage in the wilderness? You figure that anyone with a 4x4 is littering? You hikers need to put your effing powerbar wrappers in your goddamn pockets instead of chucking them on the ground before you yap about the OHV crowd.

Clarkey, you can just kiss my a$$. The way you group people... You're an oilers fan. A whyte avenue mullet wearing, phone booth burning, switchblade carrying, idiot that I see on TV. You damn hockey fan. Loser redneck hockey fan.