Our 6th Overall Pick: Elias Lindholm or Sean Monahan?

[icarus]

According to Red Line Report's Kyle Woodlief in this 4 June article:

We almost feel sorry for Sean Monahan, the forgotten man who would have been selected much higher if he had been eligible for last year's draft. Overlooked because of all the other marquee talents and the struggles of his woeful team in Ottawa, Monahan nonetheless is the type of big, smooth center who can anchor an NHL club's No. 1 line for the next 10 to 12 years. He's from the traditional playmaking center's mold and combines excellent size with terrific puck skills and imagination.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by New Era

Don't want to blow a top 10 pick on a Daymond Langkow. Daymond Langkows are available through trade. Number one centers are not. If Monahan doesn't project as a top line player or do anything at an exceptional level, then stay the hell away from him.

This team needs top end talent. Lindholm has been identified as having exceptional talent. The big thing Monahan has going for him is he's big, Canadian and plays in the OHL/QMJHL scouting hub of Ottawa. The more I read and hear about this kid the more I believe he is an average player riding a wave of hype. I'm terrified the Flames draft him and end up with another Rob Niedermayer or (worse) an Eric Nystrom. I don't want guys that have potential to be good, I want guys that have potential to be great. I'm not getting the "great" potential vibe from Monahan.

Well that's kind of a worst case outside of an outright bust. Nothing is guaranteed with any of these kids. I think Lindholm has just as much of a chance to be a 2nd line center as Monahan from what I have read.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by icarus

According to Red Line Report's Kyle Woodlief in this 4 June article:

At this point I think I would rather the Flames hold on to their picks and take Monahan rather than using a pick to move up a few spots to get Barkov. Don't know if Barkov over Monahan is worth losing out on one of the talents that will be available between 20-30.

[nik-]

Obviously we need to trade for Carolina's pick and take Lindholm and Monahan. It's the only answer.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by New Era

Don't want to blow a top 10 pick on a Daymond Langkow. Daymond Langkows are available through trade. Number one centers are not. If Monahan doesn't project as a top line player or do anything at an exceptional level, then stay the hell away from him.

This team needs top end talent. Lindholm has been identified as having exceptional talent. The big thing Monahan has going for him is he's big, Canadian and plays in the OHL/QMJHL scouting hub of Ottawa. The more I read and hear about this kid the more I believe he is an average player riding a wave of hype. I'm terrified the Flames draft him and end up with another Rob Niedermayer or (worse) an Eric Nystrom. I don't want guys that have potential to be good, I want guys that have potential to be great. I'm not getting the "great" potential vibe from Monahan.

From everything i have read, and i have read a lot, both Lindholm and Monahan have the "potential" to be a first line center. If you want the more sure fire first line center, then the flames will have to trade up to get Barkov or McKinnon ( not going to happen).

Plus i am not sure about "the wave of hype"? If Monahan had not been suspended for 10 games he would have had over 90 points on a crap team. If he had played on a good team, i have no doubt he would have had 100+ points. I don't think being Canadian has anything to do with it either. Sounds like most scouts see him as a future captain.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Monahan has 1st line potential according to all the scouting guides I've bought so I'm not sure what New Era is on about. I know McKeens isnt as huge on him. Monahan isn't relying on hype more than anybody else, seems to be a buzzword that New Era likes to throw around as if that somehow makes Monahan less attractive.

Nothing really to indicate that Lindholm has higher potential. Both project as skilled playmaking centres. From what ive read Lindholm is more competitive, smaller, slightly better skater with a worse shot. Both are excellent playmakers with high hockey sense.

I'm actually higher on Monahan after reading ISS, Redline and FC. Redline has Monahan at 6 calling him a playmaking two way first line centre comparing him stylistically to Joe Thornton/Ron Francis. ISS says he has elite playmaking and vision combined with dominant puck possession. According to ISS Monahan has better Size/Strength, better Puck Skills, better Offensive Play. According to ISS Lindholm has better Skating, Physical Play, Competitiveness and Hockey Sense. ISS lists Lindholm's strengths as work ethic, hockey IQ and leadership. ISS lists Monahan's strengths as incredible vision, puck protection and forcing turnovers.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Francis's Hairpiece

Would he be worth overpaying for?

Nope. If the Flames move up in the draft it needs to be into the top 3. No guarantee that Barkov will be a better player than Monahan.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Fire

Nope. If the Flames move up in the draft it needs to be into the top 3. No guarantee that Barkov will be a better player than Monahan.

Despite no guarantee it does seem like Barkov is a level ahead of Monahan/Lindholm in terms of upside or likelihood to achieve it. Barkov has already dominated against men and already has NHL size. Less questions on him than Monahan IMO. He has the chance to be more of an elite player.

I don't want Feaster to overpay drastically to get Barkov but I'd sure be a lot happier landing Barkov than Lindholm or Monahan. It'll be interesting to see if he is one of the guys Feaster is trying to move up to get. I suspect he is.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Despite no guarantee it does seem like Barkov is a level ahead of Monahan/Lindholm in terms of upside or likelihood to achieve it. Barkov has already dominated against men and already has NHL size. Less questions on him than Monahan IMO. He has the chance to be more of an elite player.

I don't want Feaster to overpay drastically to get Barkov but I'd sure be a lot happier landing Barkov than Lindholm or Monahan. It'll be interesting to see if he is one of the guys Feaster is trying to move up to get. I suspect he is.

It really is starting to sound like the Flames targets are in fact Barkov or Monahan. As far as moving into the top three (target being #2 for MacKinnon) it's going to cost far too much. #4 and #5 are much more attainable if they can manage to move up.

It sucks that Lindholm doesn't appear to be the target as I really think he will be something special in the NHL.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Despite no guarantee it does seem like Barkov is a level ahead of Monahan/Lindholm in terms of upside or likelihood to achieve it. Barkov has already dominated against men and already has NHL size. Less questions on him than Monahan IMO. He has the chance to be more of an elite player.

I don't want Feaster to overpay drastically to get Barkov but I'd sure be a lot happier landing Barkov than Lindholm or Monahan. It'll be interesting to see if he is one of the guys Feaster is trying to move up to get. I suspect he is.

I prefer Barkov as well, but it would probably take the 6th pick and 22nd pick to get the 4th overall pick. Personally I wouldn't do it. Even if it took the 28th pick instead on the 22nd pick I don't think I would do it.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Fire

I prefer Barkov as well, but it would probably take the 6th pick and 22nd pick to get the 4th overall pick. Personally I wouldn't do it. Even if it took the 28th pick instead on the 22nd pick I don't think I would do it.

6+22 would be a definite overpayment IMO.

6+28 I think I'd be okay with if we really like Barkov on another level above Monahan/Lindholm. Especially if Feaster can acquire another 2nd or 1st rounder at the draft using a Cammalleri or Tanguay.

What about 6+28 for 4+64? Would most fans do that?

[CaptainCrunch]

What makes Monahan intriguing is that his game in the neutral zone and defensive zone are considered NHL ready and he's very good on the dot.

So he's the type of player that won't hurt you on an NHL third line as a rookie.

He's got good offensive skills, they're a step down from the top ranked players, but they're still elite in this draft. The biggest problem that I've read about him is he's a pass first kind of guy and seems to be unwilling to shoot the puck at times.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

He's got good offensive skills, they're a step down from the top ranked players, but they're still elite in this draft. The biggest problem that I've read about him is he's a pass first kind of guy and seems to be unwilling to shoot the puck at times.

Just for interest's sake, ISS lists his weaknesses as overall quickness, and consistent intensity. Redline says he "knows how to finish around the net and has a pro shot right now. Dangerous anywhere from the blueline in." Redline doesn't really note any weaknesses and has him ranked 6th.

[Francis's Hairpiece]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

6+22 would be a definite overpayment IMO.

6+28 I think I'd be okay with if we really like Barkov on another level above Monahan/Lindholm. Especially if Feaster can acquire another 2nd or 1st rounder at the draft using a Cammalleri or Tanguay.

What about 6+28 for 4+64? Would most fans do that?

Sold!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

What about 6+28 for 4+64? Would most fans do that?

I think the Flames would do it if the covet Barkov as much as we think.

[mac_82]

What are the odds that both Monahan and Lindholm are both available at 6? 50/50?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by mac_82

What are the odds that both Monahan and Lindholm are both available at 6? 50/50?

Since Nichushkin apparently came across as Genghis Khan in interviews, it's likely only one is there.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

What makes Monahan intriguing is that his game in the neutral zone and defensive zone are considered NHL ready and he's very good on the dot.

So he's the type of player that won't hurt you on an NHL third line as a rookie.

He's got good offensive skills, they're a step down from the top ranked players, but they're still elite in this draft. The biggest problem that I've read about him is he's a pass first kind of guy and seems to be unwilling to shoot the puck at times.

I thought the "unwilling to shoot" was more Lindholm's drawback than Monahan. Everywhere I read has Lindholm as a pass first playmaker not a shooter.

[nik-]

Lindholm shoots, but his shot is average.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Despite no guarantee it does seem like Barkov is a level ahead of Monahan/Lindholm in terms of upside or likelihood to achieve it. Barkov has already dominated against men and already has NHL size. Less questions on him than Monahan IMO. He has the chance to be more of an elite player.

I don't want Feaster to overpay drastically to get Barkov but I'd sure be a lot happier landing Barkov than Lindholm or Monahan. It'll be interesting to see if he is one of the guys Feaster is trying to move up to get. I suspect he is.

Ville Niemenien at age 35 was the leading scorer on Barkov's team.

Barkov was not dominating.... It is significant that he was playing senior hockey as a 16-17 year old but he was not dominating....



It is just too hard to base the guys play against Canadian senior level hockey league.

The only thing that we really have comparing apples to apples is the WJC where he got 7 pts in 6 games..... Armia and Marcus Granlund got 12 pts in 6 games.

The league that Barkov dominated with 48 pts in 53 games? Little Marcus Granlund as a 19 year old had 34 pts in 47 games.

Mickael Granlund was drafted out of that league in 2010 with 40 pts in 43 games. 3 full seasons later he still is not a full time NHLer or dominating the AHL to the extent that Kolanos dominated in 2010-11


Will Barkov adapt to the culture and the smaller ice...?

If he is not NHL ready.... which I doubt that he is next year where will he play???? AHL for 60k /year? or the CHL for free?

He was the 2nd overall pick in the KHL draft 2012 year. Nichuskin was #11. Zadorov, who came to play in the OHL was #4.


If the Flames are moving up it should not to be to pick Barkov over Monahan.