Given the unlikely scenario where Nurse/Nichushkin go 4th/5th, it would be interesting to see the poll results after adding Barkov to the Lindholm/Monahan discussion.
Overwhelmingly in favor of Barkov?
Likely overwhelmingly for Barkov yes, probably in the 80's or 90's.
I wouldn't be upset if we took Lindholm instead though, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone else does on draft day.
Thinking about it a little bit more over the last couple of days, I actually wouldn't mind drafting Nurse either. Yes, we have issues with our centre prospects, but I think we have bigger issues on defence.
Next season we have Stajan, Backlund and Horak as our top 3 centres... not the best in the league, but definitely not horrible. Backlund and Stajan are both capable 2nd line guys and Horak has proven he belongs in the NHL. Both Horak and Backlund are young enough that you can expect they will take a step forward in the next few years. Plus we also have Jankowski, which is a wild card right now and whoever else we draft with our remaining 2 first round picks.
If our scouting staff feels that Nurse can be a franchise defenceman a la Weber and Lindholm/Monahan will just be decent centres a la Backlund/Stajan... then I would go with Nurse 10 times out of 10. We already have the decent, underwhelming centres... we don't have a franchise defenceman.
Sorry but a center group of Stajan, Backlund and Horak going foward is horrible. Stajan is a 2b/3a center at best. Backlund is a 2nd line center on a bad team, does not make top 6 on a good team. Granted he might make the next step. Horak is a 3rd line center. You are not going to win much in the next 3 years with that group. If that's the 3 for the next 3 years until Jankowski is ready, then that is the worst collection of centers in the league.
Sorry but a center group of Stajan, Backlund and Horak going foward is horrible.
That depends on your point of view. If you are a team like the Avalanche that aspires to pick 1st overall in the draft it's a fine looking center group.
When I saw Boedeker so far down the list I wondered why he was a #8 pick overall.....
He had a great playoff season .
The Flames prospects that have been successful ... Backlund, Baertschi, Reinhart, Brodie all did significantly better in the playoffs (albeit as 19 year olds - after they were drafted) than regular seasons.
Lindholm had 4 playoff games for Brynas in 2013 and had no goals or assists (4 minutes in penalties doubling his regular season total) and was a -5. His team that finished 8 lost to the the first place team in 4 straight games getting outscored 20-4.
Monahan as a 17 year old had 15 points in 18 playoff games a significant fall off from his 78 pts in 62 regular season games.
Nurse (scoring d-man) had 4 pts in his 6 playoff games very close to his --- 41 in 68 regular season games.
Nichushkin had 9 pts in 25 KHL playoff games .... only played 18 regular season games and had 6 pts
Barkov 5 pts in 5 playoff games --- same pace as 48 pts in 52 reg season games
Mackinnon and Drouin have both stepped up to be better in the playoffs than regular season.
No clear cut winner for the Flames pick although Lindholm had an incredible bad playoff experience.
Just for interest sake RHN was better in regular season than playoffs.
Jeff Skinner 20 goals in 20 OHL playoff games.. better playoffs than regular season
Monahan's shot is interesting to watch and seems unlike a lot of players. There seems to be very little unnecessary movement - most of his goals seem to be these little wrist shots with a short follow through - just seems to pick his spot and slide it in with ease.
I am torn when I watch his highlights. I know, Youtube scouting is not the best way to draw one's opinions, but it is all a lot of us have.
On the positive side, he makes it look easy and I think a big part of that is hockey IQ. He just knows where to be and doesn't need to be flashy. That is something that can be difficult to teach.
On the negative side, his size and strength at the junior level just puts him above his peers. They seem to give him way too much respect and in the NHL, there are going to be a lot of players like him and there is no way they go that easy on him. It's like they don't even want to touch him most of the time.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
That seems like the opposite of what MacTavish said he wanted to do. He could change his mind but it seems doubtful he is trading what could be an impact player to the Flames for two picks that likely result in nothing and certainly don't help the team for the next two years.
I think if MacTavish moves that pick it is to try and move up or more likely to get a roster player.
So you are certain our other two 1st rnd picks will amount to nothing. I love your optomism moon.
The Following User Says Thank You to dissentowner For This Useful Post:
So you are certain our other two 1st rnd picks will amount to nothing. I love your optomism moon.
Since when does likely mean certain?
You are then one that highlighted the word likely. Do just not read what is posted and immediately go to criticism and making stuff up?
And yes I think if the picks fall where they look like 23-30 that the picks are less than 50/50 to be significant (ie more than 100 NHL games) players.
Since most people want to get that potential #1 centre with this pick, I wanted to know what CP's opinion on these two players. Though, there's a good chance we may not even have a choice, assuming both are available at 6, who do you take?
Elias Lindholm - a right-handed centre, very creative and offensively gifted, or
Sean Monahan - a jack of all trades type of centre, deemed by many as the best defensive forward in the draft
I realize a number of people on this forum want Nichushkin or Nurse, but I wanted to limit this to a discussion of the centres.
It would be nice if a mod could add a poll.
Monahan a 3rd year Ottawa 67 lead his team mates by 30pts and scored 78pts the same as the year prior. Scored over 30 his last 2 seasons.
Proven reputation for being a strong 2 way Center with plenty of upside as he will likely hit another growth spurt at 6'2 186. Best guess he is 205-210 as an NHL player.
__________________
Last edited by Stay Golden; 05-02-2013 at 01:47 PM.
Monahan a 3rd year Ottawa 67 lead his team mates by 30pts and scored 78pts the same as the year prior. Won the OHL rookie of the year. Scored over 30 his last 2 seasons.
Proven reputation for being a strong 2 way Center with plenty of upside as he will likely hit another growth spurt at 6'2 186. Best guess he is 205-210 as an NHL player.
When did Monahan win the Emms Award?
A comment to try and be accurate about his scoring exploits. Anyone else on the team that was a scoring threat was traded away. That he out scored everyone on the team by 30 points is not that impressive when you consider the two guys that were top end scoring talents and scoring at a point per game clip were dealt away.
The Following User Says Thank You to Lanny_McDonald For This Useful Post:
When I saw Boedeker so far down the list I wondered why he was a #8 pick overall.....
He had a great playoff season .
The Flames prospects that have been successful ... Backlund, Baertschi, Reinhart, Brodie all did significantly better in the playoffs (albeit as 19 year olds - after they were drafted) than regular seasons.
Lindholm had 4 playoff games for Brynas in 2013 and had no goals or assists (4 minutes in penalties doubling his regular season total) and was a -5. His team that finished 8 lost to the the first place team in 4 straight games getting outscored 20-4.
Monahan as a 17 year old had 15 points in 18 playoff games a significant fall off from his 78 pts in 62 regular season games.
Nurse (scoring d-man) had 4 pts in his 6 playoff games very close to his --- 41 in 68 regular season games.
Nichushkin had 9 pts in 25 KHL playoff games .... only played 18 regular season games and had 6 pts
Barkov 5 pts in 5 playoff games --- same pace as 48 pts in 52 reg season games
Mackinnon and Drouin have both stepped up to be better in the playoffs than regular season.
No clear cut winner for the Flames pick although Lindholm had an incredible bad playoff experience.
Just for interest sake RHN was better in regular season than playoffs.
Jeff Skinner 20 goals in 20 OHL playoff games.. better playoffs than regular season
Agree that playoffs a good indicator for a player stepping up his game.
Have a hard time applying that to Lindholm though. He is a 17 year old playing in a mens league, for the 8th seed that was clearly overmatched
A comment to try and be accurate about his scoring exploits. Anyone else on the team that was a scoring threat was traded away. That he out scored everyone on the team by 30 points is not that impressive when you consider the two guys that were top end scoring talents and scoring at a point per game clip were dealt away.
Thanks ftp, i miss read the article i guess he was named rookie of the month as for the players traded away this season?
He did however have Jankowski ranked at 14 on his final draft rankings. So hard to say if his list was a "tip" on what the Flames were thinking last year, or just a coincidence.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 05-02-2013 at 01:58 PM.
When I saw Boedeker so far down the list I wondered why he was a #8 pick overall.....
He had a great playoff season .
The Flames prospects that have been successful ... Backlund, Baertschi, Reinhart, Brodie all did significantly better in the playoffs (albeit as 19 year olds - after they were drafted) than regular seasons.
Lindholm had 4 playoff games for Brynas in 2013 and had no goals or assists (4 minutes in penalties doubling his regular season total) and was a -5. His team that finished 8 lost to the the first place team in 4 straight games getting outscored 20-4.
Monahan as a 17 year old had 15 points in 18 playoff games a significant fall off from his 78 pts in 62 regular season games.
Nurse (scoring d-man) had 4 pts in his 6 playoff games very close to his --- 41 in 68 regular season games.
Nichushkin had 9 pts in 25 KHL playoff games .... only played 18 regular season games and had 6 pts
Barkov 5 pts in 5 playoff games --- same pace as 48 pts in 52 reg season games
Mackinnon and Drouin have both stepped up to be better in the playoffs than regular season.
No clear cut winner for the Flames pick although Lindholm had an incredible bad playoff experience.
Just for interest sake RHN was better in regular season than playoffs.
Jeff Skinner 20 goals in 20 OHL playoff games.. better playoffs than regular season
Any scout making major draft decisions based on puny samples like that should probably be out of a job. It doesn't take much to find a long list of guys who've excelled in the playoffs as NHLers who had mediocre playoff numbers in other leagues:
-Giroux's playoff scoring was about 25-30% lower than his regular season totals in his 17 and 18 year old years. The next year he put up 51 pts in 19 games in the OHL playoffs and now has some of the best playoff numbers in the NHL over the last few years.
-Getzlaf's WHL playoff numbers were a joke (8 points in 12 games in his 17 and 18 year old seasons) relative to his regular season numbers.
-Kopitar put up 0 points in 10 games in the SEL playoffs prior to being drafted.
On the other hand you've got a guy like Sergei Kostitsyn who saw a 60% increase in his production in the postseason in his first OHL season that saw him put up 37 points in 19 games as an 18 year old. His NHL playoff production (especially in the last several years) has been terrible.
There are so many variables in a single playoff run (nagging injuries, the teams they face, performance of teammates, simple luck, etc.) that drawing any vast conclusions from them is foolhardy.
Sorry but a center group of Stajan, Backlund and Horak going foward is horrible. Stajan is a 2b/3a center at best. Backlund is a 2nd line center on a bad team, does not make top 6 on a good team. Granted he might make the next step. Horak is a 3rd line center. You are not going to win much in the next 3 years with that group. If that's the 3 for the next 3 years until Jankowski is ready, then that is the worst collection of centers in the league.
We aren't going to win much in the next three years period unless the club signs a bunch of impact player free agents. The earth around here might not be scorched but it is starting to get lightly singed.
