U.N.: Israeli airstrike hits U.N. observer post

[oldschoolcalgary]

I think people should watch this video on google video...

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...23714384920696

I am not saying that this is right or wrong, however, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the continuum.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Pot, meet kettle.

Mods do you think the board could incorporate a count on how many times this joke gets used?

It's realistically close to triple digits now. Literally.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

I think people should watch this video on google video...

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...23714384920696

I am not saying that this is right or wrong, however, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the continuum.

What middle? This is an Arab propaganda film. I t ignores the Jewish side completely. It reeks of biase.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

What middle? This is an Arab propaganda film. I t ignores the Jewish side completely. It reeks of biase.

arab propaganda? There's an awful lot of israels interviewed in that documentary, not to mention numerous bbc clips...

the idea of middle wasn't meant in viewing that video in isolation; rather providing an alternate view to balance out the american media coverage...hence, why I stated that I am not saying its right or wrong...people will make their own judgements.

[Vulcan]

Good video, oldschool. I'd really like to take Israel's side in this war, but news like this shows there is always two sides, though we rarely see this in N.A. This is when Cheese should come in decrying how religion is again leading us on the warpath. How any group can claim they are on god's side is funny if it weren't so tragic.

One thing I've noticed in this new century is the use of TV such as Fox and CNN to whip the public into a frenzy so that war is looked on as a good thing and we start cheering like we are watching a sports event.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Good video, oldschool. I'd really like to take Israel's side in this war, but news like this shows there is always two sides, though we rarely see this in N.A. This is when Cheese should come in decrying how religion is again leading us on the warpath. How any group can claim they are on god's side is funny if it weren't so tragic.

One thing I've noticed in this new century is the use of TV such as Fox and CNN to whip the public into a frenzy so that war is looked on as a good thing and we start cheering like we are watching a sports event.

Thanks Vulcan - Like I said, I don't agree with everything in the video, but some people believe that everything is happening in a vacuum, that Israel/US can do no wrong...

By reducing everything to polar opposites, black and white, it removes any opportunity for true debate and compromise...once both sides have a little empathy for the other's position, is when there will be true movement to peace.

[Bleeding Red]

That was a good video, Oldschool. I will admit that when Chomsky came on in the early going I had my misgivings. There things in there that I knew about and some that I learned about.

Of course, both sides try to work these films - there are vidieos at www.honestreporting.com
& http://www.pmw.org.il/

Though I have not seen it in a long time, a good film is "Deadly Currents" about the first Intifada, by Simcha Jacobovici.

Empathy is a big part. I think that the majority of Israelis have come to grips with the fact that the Occupation is bad and has to end, now the Diaspora has to realize the same thing. On the other hand, I think the majority of N.A. Arabs have come to grips with the fact that Israel is here to stay, now those in the Mideast have to realize the same thing.

Peace and security for two independent nations is the goal.
Too many people on both sides are missing it.

[oldschoolcalgary]

The really sad thing in my mind is the vast majority on both sides want peace...but its the extremists on both sides that will sabotage the process if it stay moving to a compromise: there are factions on both sides whose position is so entrenched that peace process will continue to stall...

Bleeding Red - i'll check out your links on the weekend too, in order to gain further clarity on the israeli position.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't know if it's already been mentioned or not, but the U.N. observers apparently asked Israel 10 times to stop attacking them.

" The report says that, each time, the Israeli officer promised that the attacks would stop."

[FlamesAddiction]

There are some interesting letters on CBCs website:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/you...n_lebanon.html

I think this one makes a good point:

Having served as a United Nations Military Observer (UNMO) during the war in Bosnia I can fully appreciate the situation faced by those brave UNMOs in that UN OP in Lebanon.

The deliberate targeting of UN personnel is not new there as there have been over 100 Canadian soldiers who have lost their lives in the service of peace.

Not all died as a result of belligerent action and not all of those that died from hostile fire were deliberately targeted. However, in this case the amount of incoming fire on this OP speaks for itself.

Mr Harper if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it must be a duck. An old soldier once told me that if you see bullets hitting on you left and right they are probably shooting at you.

And this one:

As a Canadian soldier I would like to comment on the issue of why these UN observers were not withdrawn from their dangerous post when the Israeli / Hezbolla fighting erupted.

It is precisely when fighting is going on that observers are most needed. Observation posts like the one struck by the Israeli weapon permit the UN to have its own eyes on the ground, providing unbiased and timely reporting on the fighting, and serving to deter the worst excesses of war.

While there was a real risk in leaving the soldiers at their post in the middle of a battle, the post included a bunker which would have provided good protection against anything but the direct hit which in fact occurred.

Like all soldiers, UN observers may be required to risk their lives in the performance of their duties. That these men paid the ultimate price is deeply saddening, but I suspect that, as soldiers, they would have been proud to be at their post. To suggest that their duties there were frivolous or unnecessary diminishes their sacrifice.

—Raymond Farrell | TaeJeon, South Korea

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Like all soldiers, UN observers may be required to risk their lives in the performance of their duties. That these men paid the ultimate price is deeply saddening, but I suspect that, as soldiers, they would have been proud to be at their post. To suggest that their duties there were frivolous or unnecessary diminishes their sacrifice.

I am not a 'hawk' by any stretch of the imagination, but I absolutely agree this comment...one can only wonder how different the reaction would be if it were Hezbollah who accidentally destroyed the observation post...

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

I am not a 'hawk' by any stretch of the imagination, but I absolutely agree this comment...one can only wonder how different the reaction would be if it were Hezbollah who accidentally destroyed the observation post...

Are you kidding??? There would be shiznit hitting the fan from all angles. It would be a premeditated attack at those who were protecting democracy! Or something along those lines.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The UN soldiers there were observers. Perhaps the Israelis didn't want anyone there to observe their tactics?

As well,ne of the oldest tactics in warfare is to cause damage to a bystander group in order to draw them in, or hasten their participation. Sometimes it is done through "stray" attacks, other times by economic means.

Not sure if Israel did that this time, but it happens in wars all the time.

Thats a ridiculous theory. By killing a few UN observers they only bring more attention to their tactics.

Also do you really think Israel is gonna have trouble drawing in a third party here? The UN is already heavily involved, and talks about bringing in UN forces as swift as possible had already started.

This only makes them look bad. no way it was done on purpose

[oldschoolcalgary]

I don't think it was on purpose either...but clearly, someone is responsible for gross negligence and needs to be held accountable.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

I don't think it was on purpose either...but clearly, someone is responsible for gross negligence and needs to be held accountable.

gross negligence? Its a huge military operation in a very small area where the militants don't distinguish themselves from the general population. A tactical nightmare. I don't think it would take gross negligence at all for this kind of result.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by blankall

gross negligence? Its a huge military operation in a very small area where the militants don't distinguish themselves from the general population. A tactical nightmare. I don't think it would take gross negligence at all for this kind of result.

unifil calling 10 times over the span of 7 hours to warn that the IDF was shelling too close to their position? a UN position that was well known and had been there for the last 40 years? A position for which Anan had repeatedly recieved assurances would be protected from an IDF general?

the observer post wasn't in an apartment building...it was a compound on top of a hill used to monitor the border...

sounds like gross negligence to me...what's your definition?

[Calgaryborn]

I think Israel was tired of Hezebolah commanders hiding amonst UN observers at this outpost. Cut off the head and the monster dies.

I am sorry that a Canadian die but, I truly believe that they shouldn't have been there. They didn't just arrive when this war started. They've been there for a while. Supposedly, to observe the withdraw of Hezebolah and its replacement with Lebanese military. Instead they were being used as cover for Hezebolah operations. Canada should not be a part of UN operations. The UN is a corrupt organization that lacks the character and resolve to lead.

The profit for Israel was the death of some of the Hezebolah commanders at a crucial point in Israel's offensive. The cost? Nothing. The people who hate Israel still hate Israel and those who support her will continue to support her.

As far as the UN goes: they are impotent. They will make a fuss about the incident but, will do nothing. That is how they lead.

[oldschoolcalgary]

what's with the anthropomorphizing of Israel? Its a country, not a person...All countries are "its"...not her, not she....sorry, just a bit of pet peeve of mine - don't take it personally.

Perhaps what should have happened was to allow the UN observers time to evacuate, as was done today, when the last two UN observer posts were evacuated...as for "The cost? Nothing" comment, I'll assume you didn't mean that as flippantly as it reads...

As many have stated, the UN is only as strong as the resolve of its member state...each and all have their own goals and ends.

You might want to familiarlize yourself with the voting records of the security council - if you aren't already - The US is as guilty as anyone else in making the UN ineffectual.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

As many have stated, the UN is only as strong as the resolve of its member state...each and all have their own goals and ends.

You might want to familiarlize yourself with the voting records of the security council - if you aren't already - The US is as guilty as anyone else in making the UN ineffectual.

I am somewhat familiar with the voting record of the UN in regards to Israel. Yes the US protects Israel from sanctions on a regular basis. Likewise Russia, China, and France has heartily supported almost every measure against Israel and voted against almost every resolution that targeted those Arab nations who sell them their oil.

The UN has no resolve. It is one of the most corrupt govermental organizations on the planet.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I am somewhat familiar with the voting record of the UN in regards to Israel. Yes the US protects Israel from sanctions on a regular basis. Likewise Russia, China, and France has heartily supported almost every measure against Israel and voted against almost every resolution that targeted those Arab nations who sell them their oil.

The UN has no resolve. It is one of the most corrupt govermental organizations on the planet.

Absolutely...sad but true...

the idealist in me says that the UN is a great thing...a way for the world to really make things better for everyone...unfortunately, the reality is that the UN, on devisive issues, basically spins its wheels as those on the security council act only in their best interests - not the collective's...