What colour was Jesus?

[FlamesAddiction]

It sounds like that person has a bone to pick with the issue. If we held all ancient literature to those standards, I would bet a lot of people never existed.

[Agamemnon]

Maybe John was like 12 years old when Jesus died? I have no clue, but then he wouldn't have to be so old to write the gospel.

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Oct 27 2004, 08:37 PM
It sounds like that person has a bone to pick with the issue. If we held all ancient literature to those standards, I would bet a lot of people never existed.

Well, to be frank, he's got a point. There's virtually nothing physical or first person saying Jesus ever existed.

Another opinion.

Yet today, there are few Biblical scholars-- from liberal skeptics to conservative evangelicals- who believe that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John actually wrote the Gospels. Nowhere do the writers of the texts identify themselves by name or claim unambiguously to have known or traveled with Jesus.

-Jeffery L. Sheler, "The Four Gospels," (U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 10, 1990)


In other words, they're not first person accounts of knowledge of Jesus.

The author I originally posted above says "zero proof" while others, obviously, want to say there's a little more than "zero" but that's as far as they can go - "a little more than zero"

I'm not a bible-thumper and have an open mind about it. I don't care one way or the other. I would just say: "Prove it" and from my somewhat disinterested vantage point, it seems to me it remains a riddle.

Cowperson

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

A couple things that stuck out to me.

1) Pontius Pilate technically didn't execute Jesus. He left it up to the Hebrew leaders to do it, (remember the whole washing his hands of it) so it's not so suprising that a guy who wanted nothing to do with the execution, would not record that he did it.

2) Revelation mentioned with the gospel and epistles of john is odd. I've never once heard that revelation and the gospel of john were attributed to the same man. I believe the guy that wrote revelation was in fact named john, but I don't think it's ever been widely proposed that they were the same man.

Edit: Being ######ed and spelling Pilate Pilot.

[nik-]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Oct 27 2004, 07:15 PM
Not to start a war or make a political statement, but this is a fair ethnic representation of what Jesus of Nazareth would have looked like.

I know you're "just trying to show" the ethnic appearance of Jesus, but picking the picture of a terrorist and mass murderer to do it?

I mean come on, use your head.

[peter12]

One of the main principles of Christianity is faith. Thus, believers of Christianity shouldn't need concrete proof of Jesus's existence or his teachings, through their own experiences and readings they should have faith that it happened and that some of it is true.

The problem is, that with about 1000 years of tight Church control over the doctrine, alot of twisted interpretations have come out of it.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 27 2004, 09:21 PM
I'm not a bible-thumper and have an open mind about it. I don't care one way or the other. I would just say: "Prove it" and from my somewhat disinterested vantage point, it seems to me it remains a riddle.

That's basically the biggest obstacle that stops a lot of people (i think) from becoming truly religious.

These Christian chicks I know keep saying stupid things like "why can't you just believe in Jesus".

I say (like Cow) "Prove this stuff is legit"

They say, "take a leap of faith... you just have to know its true and believe".

Not exactly a compelling argument, but that's the best I've come up w/ from Christians. You have to take that leap of faith. God proves his/her existence once you believe in him/her (raw deal, hey).

That's what they tell me anyway

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by peter12@Oct 27 2004, 10:03 PM
One of the main principles of Christianity is faith. Thus, believers of Christianity shouldn't need concrete proof of Jesus's existence or his teachings, through their own experiences and readings they should have faith that it happened and that some of it is true.

There was a time when the church wanted you to believe the Earth was flat and the universe revolved around the Earth.

And killed people who argued the point.

I would imagine it would be in the interests of the "church" to discourage rational debate on whether or not Jesus actually walked the earth and ask its followers to simply have faith that it did indeed occur.

Cowperson

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by nik-@Oct 27 2004, 09:58 PM
I know you're "just trying to show" the ethnic appearance of Jesus, but picking the picture of a terrorist and mass murderer to do it?

I mean come on, use your head.

Sorry, but just how many "authentic" looking arabs are there these days that do not look like "oil sheiks" or "westernized camel jockeys"? I hate to say it, but he's the most authentic that I could think of.

[Incinerator]

This is a simple question with no simple answer: If you ask the pope, he'll tell you Jesus was a Jew and therefore he was white, if you ask Chris Rock, he'll definitely assure you that Jesus was indeed black

[peter12]

Yeah Cow, you kinda skipped over the 2nd part of my post. I completely agree with you, Church doctrine has pushed the faith principal in their own interest for over a 1000 years.

I think that Christianity actually encourages open-minded thinking. I think the Church knew this as well, hence only copying the Bible into Latin. They created a monopoly on knowledge.

[nik-]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Oct 27 2004, 10:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Oct 27 2004, 10:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-nik-@Oct 27 2004, 09:58 PM
I know you're "just trying to show" the ethnic appearance of Jesus, but picking the picture of a terrorist and mass murderer to do it?

I mean come on, use your head.

Sorry, but just how many "authentic" looking arabs are there these days that do not look like "oil sheiks" or "westernized camel jockeys"? I hate to say it, but he's the most authentic that I could think of. [/b][/quote]
holy sh*t do you read what you're typing?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by nik-+Oct 27 2004, 10:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nik- @ Oct 27 2004, 10:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Sorry, but just how many "authentic" looking arabs are there these days that do not look like "oil sheiks" or "westernized camel jockeys"? I hate to say it, but he's the most authentic that I could think of.

holy sh*t do you read what you're typing? [/b][/quote]
Hey, we're talking stereotypes, right? So might as well throw out the sterotypes that people think of when they discuss Arabs. Terrorists, sheiks and camel jockeys are the terms you hear most when Arabs are discussed.

BTW... just to mess with your mind, Osama bin Laden has actually never killed anyone if listen to his followers. His followers have done the killing. So what is the difference between the "mass murder" that has been done in bin Laden's name versus the "mass murder" that has taken place in the name of Jesus Christ/God? Have both not been done in the belief that they were rightous in their actionsbecause of their fanatical religous belief? You are aware that bin Laden and his followers wish to restore the original muslim caliphate and install bin Laden as the caliph, making him second to God and his voice on earth? Just thought I'd drop that in your lap and let you mull that one over for a while.

[peter12]

Easy easy Lanny. Bin Ladin teaches violence and aggression. Christ taught peace and love for your neighbour. The people that killed in Christ's name are really just hypocrites that used their twisted interpretation of Jesus's teachings to carry out their own evil goals.

For example, can you truly say the 30 Years War was about the teachings of Jesus Christ?

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 27 2004, 02:21 PM
I'm not a bible-thumper and have an open mind about it. I don't care one way or the other. I would just say: "Prove it" and from my somewhat disinterested vantage point, it seems to me it remains a riddle.

Only Jesus could bring Cow and I into perfect agreement

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Incinerator@Oct 27 2004, 04:30 PM
This is a simple question with no simple answer: If you ask the pope, he'll tell you Jesus was a Jew and therefore he was white, if you ask Chris Rock, he'll definitely assure you that Jesus was indeed black

Yeah, well the Pope don't know squat if he believes Jesus looked like that Irishman they've portrayed him as for 500 years.

I saw something on TV about what Jesus looked like and some forensic science types put together one of those clay heads. The only person I can think of it looked like right now is actor Tony Shalhoub (I think this might have been someone else's idea and I'm stealing it. He played the cab driver on Wings.


http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001724/

[Claeren]

Great thread, i never thought people from Alberta and the land of 'bible thumping red-necks' would be so open minded!! lol... KIDDING! Well, sort of... but i am Albertan too so...

I have heard the arguments before Cow, and they are compelling. I have also heard of MANY professors over the years losing jobs, careers, tenure, etc., after making historically well done accounts and discoveries that cast doubt on the existance, role, and/or accuracy of the accounts of Jesus' life. I also have heard of large, well funded, 'academic works' done by supposed top notch universities and their professors that are hardly more then boosterism for christianity/christ...

Scary stuff...

Claeren.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally posted by Claeren@Oct 27 2004, 05:57 PM
Great thread, i never thought people from Alberta and the land of 'bible thumping red-necks' would be so open minded!! lol... KIDDING! Well, sort of... but i am Albertan too so...

Has Alberta ever been assosiated with bible thumping?

[peter12]

Originally posted by Claeren@Oct 27 2004, 05:57 PM
Great thread, i never thought people from Alberta and the land of 'bible thumping red-necks' would be so open minded!! lol... KIDDING! Well, sort of... but i am Albertan too so...

I have heard the arguments before Cow, and they are compelling. I have also heard of MANY professors over the years losing jobs, careers, tenure, etc., after making historically well done accounts and discoveries that cast doubt on the existance, role, and/or accuracy of the accounts of Jesus' life. I also have heard of large, well funded, 'academic works' done by supposed top notch universities and their professors that are hardly more then boosterism for christianity/christ...

Scary stuff...

Claeren.

I am not sure what your point is? Are you suggesting their is some huge Western conspiracy to keep the "myth" of Jesus alive?

It's alot easier to not believe than to actually believe.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by MrMastodonFarm+Oct 28 2004, 12:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MrMastodonFarm @ Oct 28 2004, 12:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Claeren@Oct 27 2004, 05:57 PM
Great thread, i never thought people from Alberta and the land of 'bible thumping red-necks' would be so open minded!! lol... KIDDING! Well, sort of... but i am Albertan too so...

Has Alberta ever been assosiated with bible thumping? [/b][/quote]
Ooooooooooooohhh Yeah. Big Time.