Hiroshima, 64 years ago

[Dion]

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/200...years_ago.html

[Yeah_Baby]

Some interesting pictures in there. Thanks for the link.

[Bertuzzied]

Did they really need to drop 2 bombs on Japan though?

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Did they really need to drop 2 bombs on Japan though?

Think Samurai attitude...the Japanese weren't quitters...in fact a large portion still wanted to fight.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Think Samurai attitude...the Japanese weren't quitters...in fact a large portion still wanted to fight.

The soldiers got what they deserved but how many innocent civilians got wiped out?

Tough decisions for sure.

[worth]

Visiting Hiroshima was one of the most emotional experiences of my life. If anyone ever gets a chance to visit, do it. It is an amazing city.

You know, Kyoto was on the list as a potential target. I couldn't imagine all the wonderful things in that city that would have been wiped out.

And I believe the original target for the second bomb was Kokura, but they had too much cloud cover and moved on to the back up target Nagasaki. Unreal to think if you were a citizen of Kokura at the time to realize that you almost got an Atomic bomb dropped on you.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Did they really need to drop 2 bombs on Japan though?

This is where it gets dicey to say the least. I don't think they did, but then again I think of Japan had surrendered months before and Germany was still fighting I doubt that bombs would have been dropped on central Europe.

[MarchHare]

I've passionately defended the use of Little Boy and Fat Man in the past, citing the usual reason that while they killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians, they ultimately saved more lives (both American AND Japanese) since the alternative would have been a terribly bloody invasion.

Looking at those photos though, particularly the ones of civilians dying from their injuries or radiation, I can't help but think that humanity failed in this instance.

[Puppet Guy]

I just want to add this bit of info, which tends to get overlooked. I added boldface to the relevant section, and the whole article can be found below:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sheldo...a_b_56245.html

* In a 16 minute video film in which the crew of the Enola Gay are allowed to speak at length about why they believe the atomic bombings were justified, pilot Col. Paul Tibbits asserts that Hiroshima was "definitely a military objective." Nowhere in the exhibit is this false assertion balanced by contrary information. Hiroshima was chosen as a target precisely because it had been very low on the previous spring's campaign of conventional bombing, and therefore was a pristine target on which to measure the destructive powers of the atomic bomb.[11] Defining Hiroshima as a "military" target is analogous to calling San Francisco a "military" target because it has a port and contains the Presidio. James Conant, a member of the Interim Committee that advised President Truman, defined the target for the bomb as a "vital war plant employing a large number of workers and closely surrounded by workers' houses."[12] There were indeed military factories in Hiroshima, but they lay on the outskirts of the city. Nevertheless, the Enola Gay bombardier's instructions were to target the bomb on the center of this civilian city.

11. The papers of Gen. Leslie R. Groves, head of the Manhattan Project, are filled with his statements to the effect that he wanted a virgin target large enough so that the effects of the bomb would not dissipate by the time they reached the edge of the city. See for example the letter from Groves to John A. Shane, 12/27/60 on target selection, in the Groves Papers, Record Group 200, National Archives. See also, Martin Sherwin, A World Destroyed, pp. 229-230.
12. Martin J. Sherwin, A World Destroyed, see Appendix L, "Notes of the Interim Committee Meeting, May 31, 1945," p. 302.


Whatever side of the argument you're on, we can't let this happen again.

[Canada 02]

considering what Japan did to China, I'm glad for what the Americans did that day

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

considering what Japan did to China, I'm glad for what the Americans did that day

Right, because the civilians in Hiroshima were the same people guilty of committing atrocities in Manchuria...

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Looking at those photos though, particularly the ones of civilians dying from their injuries or radiation, I can't help but think that humanity failed in this instance.

While I'm not sure if I want to take the thread in this direction, but oh well. I wouldn't look at as if humanity failed, more like was par the course of reality of the depravity of human nature.

Originally Posted by Canada 02

considering what Japan did to China, I'm glad for what the Americans did that day

Human life is human life. As disgusting as the rape of Nanking etcetera was, it does by no means condone the actions of US.

However I also don't think Saddam should have be hung as a public spectacle, but oh well.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I've passionately defended the use of Little Boy and Fat Man in the past, citing the usual reason that while they killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians, they ultimately saved more lives (both American AND Japanese) since the alternative would have been a terribly bloody invasion.

Looking at those photos though, particularly the ones of civilians dying from their injuries or radiation, I can't help but think that humanity failed in this instance.

Yeah, this is similar to my thoughts. I don't think anyone is going to condone the killing of innocents, certainly I don't - I think the bombs were horrendous - but I don't think anyone back then could see an feasible alternative that would result in fewer deaths of innocent people.

Not that is condones the actions either, but the Japanese had already killed FAR more innocent people in the war than the US did by dropping the two atomic bombs.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

considering what Japan did to China, I'm glad for what the Americans did that day

I'm not. War is evil. Raping Nanking does not mean Hiroshima has to be nuked. By that logic someone should come and wipe Portland off the map. Then someone else can destroy another city.

Now I'll listen to, and agree with, most arguments that dropping the bombs were necessary and justified. But no one should ever forget how evil and terrible war and death are. No one should cheer the killing of another man.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

However I also don't think Saddam should have be hung as a public spectacle, but oh well.

He wasn't, the cell phone footage was leaked.

I don't think it's easy to draw a line between japanese soldiers and civilians. They were both fanatically nationalistic and willing to die, down to every last man woman and child. It was impossible to kill one without killing the other (ie - massive civilian suicides).

*US drops first nuke*
japan: I'd like to see you try that again.
*US drops second nuke*
japan: we surrender.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Matata

He wasn't, the cell phone footage was leaked.

I guess I should have clarified, I was more referring to CNN's "Countdown to Hanging" ticker etc.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I guess I should have clarified, I was more referring to CNN's "Countdown to Hanging" ticker etc.

The 24 hour news cycle has done a great deal of damage to legitimate news. Sigh.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Matata

He wasn't, the cell phone footage was leaked.

I don't think it's easy to draw a line between japanese soldiers and civilians. They were both fanatically nationalistic and willing to die, down to every last man woman and child. It was impossible to kill one without killing the other (ie - massive civilian suicides).

*US drops first nuke*
japan: I'd like to see you try that again.
*US drops second nuke*
japan: we surrender.

Japan didn't surrender until 6 days after the 2nd bomb. I think the Americans would have dropped more a-bombs if they had more than 2.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Looking at those photos though, particularly the ones of civilians dying from their injuries or radiation, I can't help but think that humanity failed in this instance.

I was thinking the same thing. It's shame the Americans couldn't have found another way to end the war.

[Yeah_Baby]

The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki get justified because it ended the War in the Pacific. What I'm interested more in is the fire bombing of Tokyo or even Dresden for that matter. Almost as horrible, without the convince of having ended the war.