Remember, our last captain played hardball and got 7M when the cap was what, 39M?It will literally be double that soon.
50.3 actually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Jahrmes
Iggy was one of the best to do it at the time, and I would argue that Gio is currently playing near that level.
I would argue that the situations are different. Iginla was 4 years younger then Gio will be when his next contract kicks in, he was unquestionably one of the best players (if not the best) in the world, by far the best on the team, and there was only one young player putting upward pressure on the cap (Phaneaf), and he had a better health record.
If you want to give Gio the same age equivalency as what Iginla got... 7,7,7,6,5.3,5.3... I'd have no issue.
I would argue that the situations are different. Iginla was 4 years younger then Gio will be when his next contract kicks in, he was unquestionably one of the best players (if not the best) in the world, by far the best on the team, and there was only one young player putting upward pressure on the cap (Phaneaf), and he had a better health record.
If you want to give Gio the same age equivalency as what Iginla got... 7,7,7,6,5.3,5.3... I'd have no issue.
But the cap is 40% higher than what is was back then. If you really want an "equivalency", you have to take that into account.
Provide data and let's have a discussion then, but I think guys are really looking at the number like "wow 7M is a lot of money for someone his age" without considering the actual slice of the pie that represents. Remember, our last captain played hardball and got 7M when the cap was what, 39M?
When Iginla signed his extension that began in 08-09, the cap in the first year was $56.7M (it was $50.3M in the season he signed it), and that was in the old system where players got 57% of HRR. That cap under the current system would be about $50M. I believe he was 31 when the extension came into effect. Iginla's contract was therefore 12.3% of the cap in the first year of his extension.
A similar percentage for Giordano would make for a cap hit of around $8.75M. Which is lower than the rumored initial demand, and would also be comparable for a 5 year term, not an 8 year term. And if the extension kicked in when Giordano was 31, not 33.
Anyway, that's the math behind the parameters you were suggesting.
I think a lot of people have been saying this in a variety of ways, but people are OK (if leery) about a high cap hit for up to a 5 year term. A term beyond that means a trade off in terms of dollars, which is a reasonable assumption.
I've always wondered this as well and I think that actual salary is what's more important. Just as what I get paid on my next pay check is more important to me then my average over the last 5 years. The cap hit is something for the GM to worry about. Players want to see the numbers on their pay check.
In saying that, I think management is quick to point out in negotiations that Canadian players are paid in USD. Suddenly someone who thinks that 7mil isn't quite fair for Gio has to note that in today's dollar, 7mil becomes ~8.92 CDN. In actual salary (which IMO is more important for the player then their cap hit), 8.92 is more then fair for a 33 year old player.
I'm still a firm believer that Wizard Treliving will get Gio's agent to sign his client at a contract for >7 mil cap hit. A nice friendly 6.5mil cap hit is very team friendly, and pays Gio ~8.2mil/year in CDN dollars. That's extremely fair for both sides.
I doubt teams in Canada point to the low dollar when negotiating contracts, because then players would point to a high dollar when negotiating if the circumstances warranted it, and then demand more money.
The business is done in USD. Exchange rate discussions might factor in with HRR discussions in collective bargaining, but probably not for individual contract negotiations.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Finger Cookin For This Useful Post:
Pigeon (noun): describes a player that isn’t good enough to score goals by himself, so he picks up the trash of his more skilled linemates. Often used as trash talk, as made famous by Claude Giroux:
Last edited by Goodlad; 07-14-2015 at 08:22 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Goodlad For This Useful Post:
I wonder if the term pigeon is just an inside joke from when Gio called Johnny a pigeon in the visa commercial
Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
No. It started a while ago. I think it was Hartnell??
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey.modern
Giroux.
Man, a lot of people must have me on ignore. It means a player who isn't good enough to create his own offence, so he gets other people's garbage. I even included the Giroux clip
I can't see Gio taking any deal with a sub-6.0 AAV, and to me it borders on disrespectful to expect him to.
The more i think about it, the more I can see him getting his 8 year retirement contract. Likely shakes down to 3 choices, in order of likelihood imo
1) 7-8 year deal in the 6.75AAV range. IIRC the first year of Brodie's contract this season has a nod to Gio's status in the form of a 3.9M'ish salary. I can see Gio's contract being in the 10M range for the first 2 seasons then tailing off quickly. This would also have Hamilton's salary surpass him around the time his play likely does as well.
10
10
8
6
5
5
5
5
Arguably here (despite what many people here think.. I swear he becomes older and crappier every day), this contract probably undervalues Gio in years 4-6.. That's the sacrifice he makes to ensure BT is able to build a bulletproof lineup around him, imo. This also hopefully imposes a "Lidstrom" cap on the team for the majority of the contract; I just can't see Monahan or Gaudreau pushing for a larger cap hit than the captain. Front load their contracts and hire them financial advisors.. They'll be fine.
I think an 8 year deal for a 33 yr old Gio can only be done if the cap hit is close to 5M per year. No point in doing 8 year deal, at that age, unless you get massive cap savings in first 3 to 5 yrs.
On open market, he could easily sign 9M per yr for 3 yrs IMO. 10M+ for 1 yr deal. Problem is that cap hit takes away lots of cap space so we can't do much else.
5 yr deal 7M, maybe a little more but not much. Front loaded within the rules. This is not perfect for either side.
Would it be crazy to offer him a 10m deal for 2 years?
We have the cap space short term
It prevents paying a guy 7m in 5 years when he may be equivalent to a 4m guy
It allows for a re evaluation and a better scope of his work as a captain when he is up for renewal
__________________ OFFICIAL CP REALTOR & PROPERTY MANAGER
Travis Munroe | Century 21 Elevate | 403.971.4300
Giordano Extension. Kypreos: Starting point is $72 million over 8 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realtor 1
Would it be crazy to offer him a 10m deal for 2 years?
We have the cap space short term
It prevents paying a guy 7m in 5 years when he may be equivalent to a 4m guy
It allows for a re evaluation and a better scope of his work as a captain when he is up for renewal
Would it be crazy to offer it? No.
Would it be crazy for Gio to accept it? Yes.
At Gio's age there is no way he takes a risk with a 2 year deal.
For the flames this mitigates all risk, but Gio will be looking at total dollars and job security here
Would it be crazy to offer him a 10m deal for 2 years?
We have the cap space short term
It prevents paying a guy 7m in 5 years when he may be equivalent to a 4m guy
It allows for a re evaluation and a better scope of his work as a captain when he is up for renewal
Think it might be considered cap circumvention if it was agreed upon to do that then have another contract pre-planned.
And what if he wins the Norris in the 2nd year? He's not going to accept a 6 by 4 million deal
