Electric Cars - Coming soon?

[troutman]

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...9-a8c63bcbaec8

General Motors says an electric car capable of driving 500 miles (800 kilometres) on a single U.S. gallon of gasoline could be on sale by 2010. The Chevy Volt concept car uses the same high-power lithium-ion batteries found in laptop computers. They can power a small car up to 64 kilometres on a single charge -- then keep going as a tiny gasoline engine kicks in to drive an on-board generator.

Some analysts worry the public has heard automakers cry wolf once too often about an electric solution to western dependency on petroleum fuels. But several were optimistic about the Chevy Volt.

Is this realistic? What will it cost?

[Looger]

something tells me super-cap capacitor banks will supplant the conventional battery.

they can be charged immediately as they're in banks that are in parallel and they hold their charge for a very long time compared to normal capacitors.

it's one of those technologies slightly out of the public eye but when it comes to energy density and ease of re-use i cannot think of any other electric charge storage medium that is even in the same league.

obviously not fully developed yet, but i tend to think things like electric cars will be far more feasible with them.

[bluejays]

I understand the auto market is very hard to enter because of the enormous costs, but it really is amazing that no independant company or university has come up with a car that runs on a fuel cell yet. Whenever we see something run on this, the car always is some ridiculous concept that looks like a cockroach. Time for a private company to develop a fuel cell or electric car, and sell the technology to the big 4. If you're depending on those guys to come up with something, you're gonna be waiting a long time. Aren't the Prius and other "hybrids" marginally better than regular gasoline cars?

[troutman]

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayS...74&docid=31656

“The Chevrolet Volt is a new type of electric vehicle. It addresses the range problem and has room for passengers and their stuff. You can climb a hill or turn on the air conditioning and not worry about it.”

The Volt can be fully charged by plugging it into a 110-volt outlet for approximately six hours a day. When the lithium-ion battery is fully charged, the Volt can deliver 40 city miles of pure electric vehicle range. When the battery is depleted, a 1L, three-cylinder turbocharged engine spins at a constant speed, or revolutions per minute (rpm), to create electricity and replenish the battery. According to Lutz, this increases the fuel economy and range.

“If you lived within 30 miles from work (60 miles round trip) and charged your vehicle every night when you came home or during the day at work, you would get 150 miles per gallon,” Lutz said. “More than half of all Americans live within 20 miles of where they work (40 miles round trip). In that case, you might never burn a drop of gas during the life of the car.”


2007 North American International Auto Show in Detroit:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/au...in&oref=slogin

[worth]

Originally Posted by fleury

I understand the auto market is very hard to enter because of the enormous costs, but it really is amazing that no independant company or university has come up with a car that runs on a fuel cell yet. Whenever we see something run on this, the car always is some ridiculous concept that looks like a cockroach. Time for a private company to develop a fuel cell or electric car, and sell the technology to the big 4. If you're depending on those guys to come up with something, you're gonna be waiting a long time. Aren't the Prius and other "hybrids" marginally better than regular gasoline cars?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1329941.shtml

[Looger]

ah, yes, the fuel cell.

highly touted as an alternative fuel but it's really just an expensive way for power companies to sell you 6 or 7 joules of energy for every one that you can store in it, very inefficient. the entire process is complex and not economically viable in my opinion. the cell is simply the vehicle, the medium, not the source - the energy input comes from the method of storing the hydrogen.

technically speaking burning carbohydrates is burning hydrogen, gasoline is the transmission medium. the burning of carbon is the byproduct, the oops. but that may be nitpicking a bit too much.

not that petro-fuels are much better, something like 14% of the power makes it to the road (old numbers i know), most lost to heat.

i don't know what the answer is but the 'filling' method of fuel cells is not efficient.

[Slava]

I don't have the technical expertise to know whether this is viable but I do hope to see the electric car as the ride of choice someday, but there is much more at work here!

In 1900 20% of the vehicles on the road were electric, and in 2000 the figure was less than 1%....not exactly progress to help the environment.

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Slava

In 1900 20% of the vehicles on the road were electric, and in 2000 the figure was less than 1%....not exactly progress to help the environment.

considering how they developed power back then and how inefficient the lines were i'll still call it a win.

i think people have to look at the whole package, many are convinced that there is zero pollution from electric cars.

i think that the energy use at the car is VERY efficient with electric, maybe 5 times more efficient than gasoline.

but if the power to charge and transmit is worse for the environment per unit of put-down-to-the-road power, then that should be taken into account.

obviously it varies area to area, some places burn oil products for power, some nuclear, some hydroelectric.

i'm not sure what the numbers bear out, but it's not as squeaky clean as many seem to think.

[MrMastodonFarm]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/

[Slava]

Did you get to see this flick? I really wanted to, but alas have not yet. It looked really good though...

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by fleury

I understand the auto market is very hard to enter because of the enormous costs, but it really is amazing that no independant company or university has come up with a car that runs on a fuel cell yet. Whenever we see something run on this, the car always is some ridiculous concept that looks like a cockroach. Time for a private company to develop a fuel cell or electric car, and sell the technology to the big 4. If you're depending on those guys to come up with something, you're gonna be waiting a long time. Aren't the Prius and other "hybrids" marginally better than regular gasoline cars?

Tesla Motors

[Looger]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Tesla Motors

from that site:

http://www.latimes.com/la-hy-neil29n...home-headlines
The dead-sexy Tesla delivers on its promise

In a test drive, the speedy, electric roadster shows what all the fuss is about.
By Dan Neil, Times Staff Writer
November 29, 2006
ALL right, no beating around the high-voltage bush: What is the Tesla Roadster, the dead-sexy, six-figure, all-electric sports car prototype like to drive?
It's hard to be definitive, since the company could only allow me a 45-minute romp around Marina del Rey earlier this week and also because the prototype I drove has been loved half to death since the car was unveiled at the Santa Monica Airport in July.

anything with testimonials that quote fat ba$tard are worth checking out!

i'd heard of this car, mostly from my interest in tesla. i've often wondered why electric cars weren't out as sports cars, given their full torque available all the time and their low weight for cornering etc.

have to follow this one.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Slava

Did you get to see this flick? I really wanted to, but alas have not yet. It looked really good though...

Yup, watched it the other day, it's pretty darn good.

[Slava]

That is a nice looking car, and the numbers look good.....except for that $100k USD price tag.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Looger

have to follow this one.

Here is the first article I had read on it from Wired.

Eberhard got his first bite from Elon Musk, cofounder of PayPal, who -- over the course of two years -- put in nearly $30 million of his own money and also corralled some of his wealthy entrepreneur friends to chip in. By May 2006, Tesla Motors had raised $60 million.

Eventually, he lured so many Lotus employees that the British company insisted he sign a no-poaching agreement or it wouldn't build the ca

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/

This movie was amazing!!!!!

The thing is, the electric car is always on the "brink" of being released into the mainstream, but it never is.

In 1996, California created a mandate that stipulated all car companies that want to sell cars in California must have a certain percent that are emissions free. All the car companies created an electric vehicle line, GM, Ford, Toyota, etc. The thing is, they wouldn't ALLOW people to buy the cars, only lease them. Then, the car companies (along with the Bush administration) sued the government of California and they came up with an agreement, the car companies would create the cars based on "customer demand". What ended up happening is after the leases were done, they would not allow any car owner to renew, there were application processes to try and get a lease on a car ( ), long waiting lists were created, but the same week GM closed their electric car plant - they bought out Hummer and a new era of gas-guzzling started...

People wanted to know what was happening to their cars that they wanted to keep after their lease was up. GM said that they were dismantling the cars and recycling them. A bunch of EV owners flew over GM's dump site in some state... Arkansas maybe... and they came up with aerial views of all the EV cars flattened and staked up.

The thing is, you never saw an add with supermodels driving the electric cars down the PCH. They actually had an infrastructure in place as well where people could charge their cars at charging stations.

A lot of people said there were limitations for how far the car could go, but a gentleman created a super-efficient battery that was far better than the one placed in the EVs. GM bought the majority of shares in his company and would not allow him to advertise it or use it commercially. Years later GM sold their shares to Texaco Inc. and well, they're not in a big hurry to use it, obviously...

This movie depressed the **** out of me. Big oil is just too powerful to allow this to happen. GM has the technology to release these cars right now, but they won't be out by 2010... apparently. What will probably happen in 2010 is GM will say there is a better technology that they will release in another five years... like a hydrogen fueled car, but they will probably stiffen the idea like they did in California.

[Caged Great]

It's all bs anyway, In europe, all the garbage trucks are electric, but no cars can be..... give me a break.

its all about the government (from taxing the oil) and the oil companies wanting the $$...

[Wookie]

Originally Posted by fleury

I understand the auto market is very hard to enter because of the enormous costs, but it really is amazing that no independant company or university has come up with a car that runs on a fuel cell yet. Whenever we see something run on this, the car always is some ridiculous concept that looks like a cockroach. Time for a private company to develop a fuel cell or electric car, and sell the technology to the big 4. If you're depending on those guys to come up with something, you're gonna be waiting a long time. Aren't the Prius and other "hybrids" marginally better than regular gasoline cars?

There is a ton of companies working towards such a thing.

Do a search for fuel cell companies on the Venture or TSX and you'll find a bunch. Problem is it's expensive as heck, and so many things just don't pan out.

I followed one for a few years that looked like it was going to have something..

As well ballard power was a big name a few years ago.. Haven't followed the story for awhile but think it lost some of its lstre from lack of developing anything valuable for the market..

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Wookie

Do a search for fuel cell companies on the Venture or TSX and you'll find a bunch. Problem is it's expensive as heck, and so many things just don't pan out.

This is what I thought the current problem with the Hybrid cars was. That new batteries are several thousand dollars are need to be replaced every so often. I'm sure someone knows more about this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was oil company propaganda.