2016 NHL Draft

[Gaskal]

Before Gaudreau.... there was BeetleJuice.


Whatever faults Huselius had, he was sure fun to watch.

[dammage79]

The likely hood that Tkachuk and Dubois will be gone before #6 is greater than the possibility that one will be available.

So it would be nice to further explore other prospects like Nylander or Brown or Jost or any of the D men or whoever with as much gusto or depth of discussion as we have had with Tkachuk (mostly) or Dubois.

I think we've covered the argument about Tkachuk well enough that it is going in circles now.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

So much slander directed at the Greatest, otherwise known as Kristian Huselius. Huselius certainly drove the play for his line - he was the QB, and the reason for our offense. He made Langkow a 30 G scorer and Phaneuf a Norris candidate. He was our best player in that series against the big, bad Ducks, and, but for a crossbar, would have closed out that series in 6 and sent us on to a sure Cup win.
Nylander might only be Huselius? Nylander wishes he will be that good.

OT, but I remember when Yakupov was drafted, a buddy's knock on him was that he was only going to be another Kovalchuk. I'm like, are you kidding, Yakupov wishes he could be half as good as Kovalchuk.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by mile

It's interesting to me that despite having seemingly average size at 6'1"/198, they rank his size/strength as an A+ on the report card and say he has great size and strength in this scouting report. He'll definitely grow and add muscle as he gets older, that's very intriguing.

Great find, thanks for that.

What factors in with size/strength is not just height but also how strong you are through your core. Crosby is incredibly hard on the puck for his 5'11 height and its because he has insanely good core strength. Tkachuk while being shorter than a guy like Colborne isn't pushed over as easily Colborne and protects the puck better than Colborne because he's very strong for his height and uses his body to protect the puck well. One thing I noticed from watching Tkachuk is that he'll stuck his butt out ala Jagr and widen his skating stance and thus protects the puck extremely well for his height. There are players who play bigger than their size. Mike Peca, Crosby, Marchand, etc. I think Tkachuk plays bigger than his size.

[IgiTang]

I see Matthew Tkachuk as a much, much more offensively determined and quite a bit more skilled Junior than that of Charlie Coyle.

Anyone know the height and weight of Coyle when he was 18? Now 6'3, 221 lbs.@ 24yo

Tkachuk is 6'1", 198 lbs @ 18yo.

If you said to me we could draft a much better version of Charlie Coyle. One who displays as much grit and boardwork, but has better IQ and higher potential ceiling, I would draft the guy immediately to play with Johnny and Monny.

I think thats the type of player Hartley was trying to find in Ferland, but something was off with Ferly.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

"Elite complimentary powerforward."

Matthew Tkachuk is not elite in any shape or form. Please point out a skill where he is "elite." His best skill is probably his instincts. He knows where to be to make himself available to his line mates. But even that he isn't elite. It's not like you watch him play and think, holy crap, this guy is Kreskin out there. Other than that he doesn't display a single elite skill. He's not a top end skater. He is not a top end passer. He is not a top end finisher. Most of all, he is NOT a power forward! He's no more of a power forward than German Titov was when he played for the Flames. Tkachuk does not display the qualities that make me believe he could be a power forward at any level. To be honest I don't think he's even the best physical forward on his team.

Well lets look at what the scouts say. mile provided us with an in depth scouting report on Tkachuk care of Redline Report which really paints the picture of what type of player he is quite clearly.

http://www.redlinereport.com/wp-cont...March-2016.pdf

Which skills does he have that are elite? He receives an A-, A or A+ in the categories of Size/Strength, Puckhandling, Hockey Sense, Competitiveness and Physical Play. So 5 of the 9 categories they use. He receives a B in in Skating, a B+ in Shot/Scoring, a B in Composure/Poise and a C+ in Defense.

I'm guessing you use the word power forward differently than the modern scouting usage. The word has morphed over time. Before it used to mean someone who could score, hit and fight all at an elite level. Now I think it means someone who uses their size and strength to their advantage to protect the puck and drive the net. Under the new usage guys like Laine and Puljujarvi are powerforwards despite them not being bruisers or grinders. If you don't like that usage then we have to invent a new word for someone who is big and strong and uses their size to their advantage even if they're not throwing huge hits or fighting. Is Jagr a finesse forward? No. Is he a power forward under the old usage? No. Is he a power forward under the new usage? Yes IMO because he relies on his size, strength and puck protection as one of his biggest assets.

I guess it all depends on where you think the Flames strengths and weaknesses in the top 6 are and how best to compliment those. Some believe you just add as much pure skill as possible and go from there (GranteedEV seems to subscribe to this philosophy from what I can tell). Based on my experience of watching hockey I believe that you need a couple big, strong, skilled, gritty players to get the most out of your smaller, skilled guys. I believe that a line that has a skilled physical force on it like a Simmonds is harder to shut down then a line of three small, finesse, high skill players.

Obviously not everyone agrees. That's cool. I realize not everyone values size and strength the same way I do. But it seems like our management does and if we want to talk about who we're going to take then we should probably factor it in. Management does not want a team of big, unskilled grinders. But they do believe that having some strong, powerful skilled players is necessary to compliment your smaller, softer more pure skilled finesse players.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The likely hood that Tkachuk and Dubois will be gone before #6 is greater than the possibility that one will be available.

So it would be nice to further explore other prospects like Nylander or Brown or Jost or any of the D men or whoever with as much gusto or depth of discussion as we have had with Tkachuk (mostly) or Dubois.

I think we've covered the argument about Tkachuk well enough that it is going in circles now.

pretty much covers it... i am pretty sure that most posters would agree that if either Tkachuk or Dubois was available, Calgary would pick one of them... with only the minority wanting someone else like a dman or a Brown...

if both are gone, that's when things get a lot more uncertain...

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I see Matthew Tkachuk as a much, much more offensively determined and quite a bit more skilled Junior than that of Charlie Coyle.

Anyone know the height and weight of Coyle when he was 18? Now 6'3, 221 lbs.@ 24yo

Tkachuk is 6'1", 198 lbs @ 18yo.

If you said to me we could draft a much better version of Charlie Coyle. One who displays as much grit and boardwork, but has better IQ and higher potential ceiling, I would draft the guy immediately to play with Johnny and Monny.

I think thats the type of player Hartley was trying to find in Ferland, but something was off with Ferly.

Coyle was 6ft 1.5in, 202 lbs in his draft year.

http://centralscouting.nhl.com/link3...ticSkaters.pdf Number 24 on the list.

He's grown 1.5in and added 20lbs of muscle in the 5 years since his draft. I'd say there is a good chance Tkachuk ends up at around 6ft 2in 210lbs region given how juniors usually physically fill out.

I think with Ferland, he's been playing catch up for the last 2-3 years. He probably lost loads of development whilst he was drinking and getting into trouble in his teenage years. I think if he'd have not gone somewhat astray, he would be much further along in his development.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The likely hood that Tkachuk and Dubois will be gone before #6 is greater than the possibility that one will be available.

So it would be nice to further explore other prospects like Nylander or Brown or Jost or any of the D men or whoever with as much gusto or depth of discussion as we have had with Tkachuk (mostly) or Dubois.

I think we've covered the argument about Tkachuk well enough that it is going in circles now.

That's why I did my poll on who we should draft at #6 the way I did!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The likely hood that Tkachuk and Dubois will be gone before #6 is greater than the possibility that one will be available.

So it would be nice to further explore other prospects like Nylander or Brown or Jost or any of the D men or whoever with as much gusto or depth of discussion as we have had with Tkachuk (mostly) or Dubois.

I think we've covered the argument about Tkachuk well enough that it is going in circles now.

Agreed, I think we've covered Tkachuk in great detail and everyone has enough information to make their own opinion on him especially with that great scouting report that mile tracked down. That said I do think it's very relevant to the discussion about whether it would be worth it to deal up a spot or two to take a Tkachuk/Dubois. I think there's a very slim chance Tkachuk would be there at #6 for us. But if the Oilers find that trading for a top pairing defensemen is impossible then they may have to consider dealing down a couple spots to take a d-man this draft. If VAN sees Dubois/Tkachuk as being close enough to their top two defensemen they could decide trading down 1 spot with us and grabbing the organizational need (dmen) could be worthwhile. So the discussion about Dubois/Tkachuk isn't totally in vain IMO because there are some scenarios where we may be able to trade up a spot or two to land one of them. And I think it would be foolish to completely write off the chance that one of EDM/VAN takes a dman anyway. There's always a couple surprises in the top 10. Expect the unexpected especially with a draft where the rankings are all over the place after the top 3.

But moving on who is the mystery man that the Flames have in their top 6 in addition to those players? That is one of the intriguing story lines. IMO the 5 most likely players to round out that elite 6 that Treliving referenced are:
Brown, Sergachev, Chychrun, Juolevi and Nylander.

Now all those 5 guys are OHL guys. So where all our OHL watchers be at? drudetective? Can't remember who else has seen these guys. Any of you comfortable breaking down their games for us? I don't think I've seen them enough to break them down properly. Right now I think I prefer Sergachev, Nylander and Chychrun out of that grouping.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

http://new.ontariohockeyleague.com/a...dcast-schedule

Sounds like Sportsnet 360 will carry games 4, 5, and 6 of the OHL championship between LDN and NIA. LDN has draft eligibles like Tkachuk, Juolevi, Jones, Pu.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

But moving on who is the mystery man that the Flames have in their top 6 in addition to those players? That is one of the intriguing story lines. IMO the 5 most likely players to round out that elite 6 that Treliving referenced are:
Brown, Sergachev, Chychrun, Juolevi and Nylander.

Now all those 5 guys are OHL guys. So where all our OHL watchers be at? drudetective? Can't remember who else has seen these guys. Any of you comfortable breaking down their games for us? I don't think I've seen them enough to break them down properly. Right now I think I prefer Sergachev, Nylander and Chychrun out of that grouping.

The Flames haven't really given enough on any player to really figure who they have at #6 other than Conroy not speaking very highly of Chychrun. So maybe the context is they don't think he is close to NHL ready but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't have him at #6 either.

I'd hazard a guess Nylander and Sergachev could be at#6. Sergachev plays a more aggressive game. And Nylander has too much skill to downgrade maybe.

Who knows really.

The OHL watchers have weighed in a lot recently it's just buried in the thread.

Off the top of my head and I can be corrected any time.

On Nylander: Went in expecting a lot left disappointed and more impressed with other players.

On Sergachev: Didn't wow. Others have been high on him.

Juolevi: IIRC, Akin to most pro scouts take.

Chychrun: cannot recall. Didn't get amazing reviews though IIRC.

[Krynn]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Brendl didn't ride anyone's coattails either. In his draft year he had 73 goals and 134 points (he led the scoring race by 16 points). Brad Moran his centre had 60 goals and 118 points. The next highest forward on the team (Kris Beech) had 67 points!!!

He was a lazy cherry picker but a lethal finisher. Terrible example of someone riding someone's coattails though.

I was thinking the same thing Flames Draft Watcher about Brendl he never rode anyone's coattails

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Great find, thanks for that.

What factors in with size/strength is not just height but also how strong you are through your core. Crosby is incredibly hard on the puck for his 5'11 height and its because he has insanely good core strength. Tkachuk while being shorter than a guy like Colborne isn't pushed over as easily Colborne and protects the puck better than Colborne because he's very strong for his height and uses his body to protect the puck well. One thing I noticed from watching Tkachuk is that he'll stuck his butt out ala Jagr and widen his skating stance and thus protects the puck extremely well for his height. There are players who play bigger than their size. Mike Peca, Crosby, Marchand, etc. I think Tkachuk plays bigger than his size.

This is one of the things Burke was talking about when he said they need to play heavier.

Crosby plays a very heavy game and is very difficult to knock off the puck.

Being bigger and harder to play against means several different things, not just having a bunch of bruzers.

[Racki]

I'm surprised the comparson isn't being made constantly between Alex and William Nylander. How do the experts see it? Which brother is better?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Racki

I'm surprised the comparson isn't being made constantly between Alex and William Nylander. How do the experts see it? Which brother is better?

From what I've heard and read William has slightly more pure skill and better skating. Alex might be a bit less soft than William at the same age and is slightly taller than William was in his draft year.

[Vulcan]

Going by Craig Button has Brown in his top five, my guess is the Flames agree.

The 2016 Draft Spotlight tonight will feature one of the top ranked players in the Class of 2016; Logan Brown of the Windsor Spitfires. The 6'6 center also played for USA at the recent World U18s in Grand Forks. He's considered by every a 1st round talent and Craig Button has him in his top 5!. http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-126...ident-1.483225

[David Struch]

This is the way I see it..

4. Dubois
5. Nylander
6. Keller
7. Sergachyov
8. Brown
9. Tkachuk
10. Juolevi
11. Bean
12. Chychrun
13. Gauthier
14. Jost
15. McLeod

Hopefully the Flames can put together a package and draft another one of their top 10 guys (35th, 53rd, 55th, 65th)

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Going by Craig Button has Brown in his top five, my guess is the Flames agree.

The 2016 Draft Spotlight tonight will feature one of the top ranked players in the Class of 2016; Logan Brown of the Windsor Spitfires. The 6'6 center also played for USA at the recent World U18s in Grand Forks. He's considered by every a 1st round talent and Craig Button has him in his top 5!. http://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-126...ident-1.483225

Not sure we've seen his updated rankings lately. He had Brown at #27 in his March rankings.

Here's his latest rankings I believe:
http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-canad...class-1.457738

I believe the top 5 refers actually refers to a recent "mock draft" by Button in which he tries to guess where the players might go. His mock drafts and his rankings are two separate and different things. Two years ago he had Virtanen top 8 in his mock draft but in the 40's in his actual draft rankings.

Here's his mock draft:
http://www.tsn.ca/tsn-hockey-mock-dr...ition-1.481511

I think we can deduce that with Craig Button having Brown that high in his mock that he must've heard from his scouting contacts that some teams have him top 5. Is Tod Button one of those people he's heard it from? We can't say with any certainty.

I am pretty curious how high Brown will be on Button's next set of rankings. It certainly wouldn't shock me if Brown was top 6 on the Flames list. That said it wouldn't shock me if he wasn't. Here's Corey Pronman of ESPN today on what he's heard from his scouting contacts

"There's a big divide on Brown within the industry. Some absolutely adore him, having him as a top-5 prospect, and other hockey people would not go near him in the top 15."

Pronman's mock draft (Flames take Dubois after VAN takes Chychrun):
https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comm...hl_mock_draft/

[Calgary4LIfe]

During one of Craig Button's interviews, he stated that he wasn't finished compiling his overall ranking list yet, but that he 'promises to have Brown in his top 5, probably at 5'.

I am sure it was during one of his interviews posted somewhere in this thread, but I can't remember it off-hand. I know it wasn't his mock draft, but his upcoming overall rankings.