Alberta Politics Thread

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Look at all that growth in the last year.

Nothing goes up forever without some bumps along the way. The trajectory of the Alberta economy is still far better than any other province in Canada, to the point where it essentially matched Quebec in size.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Flat tax? Lowest corporate tax in the country?

I mean how to cope with a rapidly growing population. When you close a bunch of hospitals and then choke off funding for municipalities and school boards just as in-migration is ramping up steeply, you get the massive infrastructure deficit that the province - and especially the cities - have spent the last 15 trying to dig itself out of.

And really, the guy had no plan for dealing with budget surpluses except cutting people cheques. The notion of planning for sustainable public services decades into the future was simply beyond someone with such a limited vision. Klein was the anti-Lougheed.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

Beleive he was talking about long term growth, not sure how a 1 yr sample size is relevant.

Long term growth in Alberta outside of the energy sector declined during and after Klein's time in leadership.

Selling off AGT and other profitable public corporations reduced the breadth of Alberta's tax base and revenue generating ability, meaning declines in energy sector profitability hurts the Alberta economy worse now than it did in the 1980s.

Sure, it consolidated political support to basically one industry which was good for established provincial politicians, but it was bad for Albertans as a whole.

Alberta has struggled to reconcile their low tax rate and lack of provincial revenues ever since. The BC Government is currently utilising the same playbook to the same, predictable results.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Selling off AGT and other profitable public corporations reduced the breadth of Alberta's tax base and revenue generating ability, meaning declines in energy sector profitability hurts the Alberta economy worse now than it did in the 1980s.

A few points:

- Alberta's economy is more diverse now than in the 80s
- Why does the government need to be in businesses that the private sector is able to provide?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

A few points:

- Alberta's economy is more diverse now than in the 80s
- Why does the government need to be in businesses that the private sector is able to provide?

Government doesn't need to be in business, however selling these businesses was a large part of how the debt was paid off. It was a onetime event. So selling its stake as AEC (in what would later become Encana/Cenovus) meant that they got the cash and we're able to pay down debt, but also that the revenue stream was lost. Same with other crown corporations.

On the whole I think that government should not be doling out money to private businesses. To me that isn't quite the same as not being in business though because if they're in business and profitable we all get a slice of that pie as citizens.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Long term growth in Alberta outside of the energy sector declined during and after Klein's time in leadership.

Selling off AGT and other profitable public corporations reduced the breadth of Alberta's tax base and revenue generating ability, meaning declines in energy sector profitability hurts the Alberta economy worse now than it did in the 1980s.

Sure, it consolidated political support to basically one industry which was good for established provincial politicians, but it was bad for Albertans as a whole.

Alberta has struggled to reconcile their low tax rate and lack of provincial revenues ever since. The BC Government is currently utilising the same playbook to the same, predictable results.

Imagine if we still had AGT instead of Telus? Saskatchewan enjoys very affordable phone plans that everyone in the country tries to scam their way into. People complain about government corporations, but I think telecom is a no-brainer to keep in public control.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Imagine if we still had AGT instead of Telus? Saskatchewan enjoys very affordable phone plans that everyone in the country tries to scam their way into. People complain about government corporations, but I think telecom is a no-brainer to keep in public control.

Especially considering it was a government outlay of capital that established the hardware and business apparatus to begin with.

It's an ideologically motivated point to question why a government crown corporation should exist when it is profitable for the province to do it. BC now has a similar revenue gap after selling otherwise profitable crown corps or their assets in previous years. It's profits from the ultra hot real-estate market that are making the tax cuts look practical but the government is still selling one-time assets on a seemingly yearly basis to 'balance' their budget and account for shortfalls.

This is part of the illness that Klein helped establish in the province, that somehow you can have your cake and eat it too. You cannot have low taxes and high services and a booming private sector all at the same time. The formula doesn't work. Pick 2 and go from there, otherwise you have public sector employees competing with private sector employees for wages without the tax base to cover it.

Cliff likes to mention this all the time but it's something I think is worth droning on about. If Alberta had taxes equal to the next closest jurisdiction there wouldn't be a budget shortfall and if there was it would be marginal vs. the now staggering amount in large part due to foolish forecasts for oil revenue.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Haven't they gone the other way?

Social Credit -> Lougheed PC -> Weird Redford version of PC -> NDP

The only blip is Ralph Klein in between.

I miss Ralph.

Sorry, I meant that each dynasty started left, then went right. UFA, Social Credit and the PCs all had significant elements we would consider decidedly left wing when they were elected before shifting firmly into conservative (particularly economic) territory.

[CaptainCrunch]

Bump

AIMCO not too happy with the NDP Government

http://business.financialpost.com/fp...-heritage-fund

NDP surpasses the Wildrose in terms of fund raising, last quarter

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...rter-1.3810513

latest poll shows PC's ahead of Wildrose by 13 points. The NDP sits in third trailing the PC's by about 18 points and Wildrose by about 6.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...t-ndp-in-third

State of the province address from Notley tonight and what she's expected to talk about.

http://www.660news.com/2016/10/19/pr...vince-address/

[Resolute 14]

That poll is rather interesting, but doesn't come from one of the major polling firms. Hard to treat it as anything but a significant outlier at this point.

[RyZ]

na

[CaptainCrunch]

The press was fawning over Trudeau's visit and that over a thousand people showed up to Cheer on Justin. But the fact is that they mispelled Cheer.

The Liberals got badly pummelled in the election.

What's even more telling is

And despite — or perhaps because of — a provincial NDP government, the federal NDP candidate, Beverly Ann Waege, received 353 votes (1.0 per cent) — roughly half of the votes cast for Rod Taylor of the Christian Heritage Party, who got 702 votes (2.0 per cent).
Kayne Cooper of the Rhinos got 0.6 per cent (211 votes) and Sheldon Johnston of the Libertarians.took 0.8 per cent (284 votes).

She got half the votes of a somewhat racist religiohs based wack job party candidate.

The NDP is rapidly sliding back into fringe party territory both federally and provincially.

Federally because they bounced a very good common sense leader in Mulcair so they can replace him with the typical Federal NDP lunatics and hippies.

Provincially very bad, because this is a message to Notley that she actually has to start listening to people that aren't trade unionists and environmentalists and actually start working for the province and its people instead of against it because of her you know, Poliltical theory.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Especially considering it was a government outlay of capital that established the hardware and business apparatus to begin with.

It's an ideologically motivated point to question why a government crown corporation should exist when it is profitable for the province to do it. BC now has a similar revenue gap after selling otherwise profitable crown corps or their assets in previous years. It's profits from the ultra hot real-estate market that are making the tax cuts look practical but the government is still selling one-time assets on a seemingly yearly basis to 'balance' their budget and account for shortfalls.

This is part of the illness that Klein helped establish in the province, that somehow you can have your cake and eat it too. You cannot have low taxes and high services and a booming private sector all at the same time. The formula doesn't work. Pick 2 and go from there, otherwise you have public sector employees competing with private sector employees for wages without the tax base to cover it.

Cliff likes to mention this all the time but it's something I think is worth droning on about. If Alberta had taxes equal to the next closest jurisdiction there wouldn't be a budget shortfall and if there was it would be marginal vs. the now staggering amount in large part due to foolish forecasts for oil revenue.

AGT was run very, very poorly.

Maybe you guys never dealt with them. I used to get my bill after my billing date. It took months for them to fix it. In the meantime I got dinged late charge after late charge.

The old AGT datacentres were decrepit pieces of crap. Totally worthless, customers were able to get out of contracts no questions asked.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The press was fawning over Trudeau's visit and that over a thousand people showed up to Cheer on Justin. But the fact is that they mispelled Cheer.

The Liberals got badly pummelled in the election.

What's even more telling is



She got half the votes of a somewhat racist religiohs based wack job party candidate.

The NDP is rapidly sliding back into fringe party territory both federally and provincially.

Federally because they bounced a very good common sense leader in Mulcair so they can replace him with the typical Federal NDP lunatics and hippies.

Provincially very bad, because this is a message to Notley that she actually has to start listening to people that aren't trade unionists and environmentalists and actually start working for the province and its people instead of against it because of her you know, Poliltical theory.

This wasn't exactly unexpected though. Cardston-Taber-Warner is basically the bible belt. For the PC's (before the Wildrose came along) that was perhaps the safest riding in the entire province, which was basically chock full of safe ridings.

So yeah, the LPC didn't win. They also put up a really good showing for them though (the highest percentage of the vote in decades south of Calgary). There were never going to win that riding though.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Slava

This wasn't exactly unexpected though. Cardston-Taber-Warner is basically the bible belt. For the PC's (before the Wildrose came along) that was perhaps the safest riding in the entire province, which was basically chock full of safe ridings.

So yeah, the LPC didn't win. They also put up a really good showing for them though (the highest percentage of the vote in decades south of Calgary). There were never going to win that riding though.

Yeah, Cardston-Taber-Warner is probably the most socially conservative riding in the province, and easily top 10 in Canada. The Christian Heritage Party numbers are telling enough.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Shazam

AGT was run very, very poorly.

Maybe you guys never dealt with them. I used to get my bill after my billing date. It took months for them to fix it. In the meantime I got dinged late charge after late charge.

The old AGT datacentres were decrepit pieces of crap. Totally worthless, customers were able to get out of contracts no questions asked.

AGT was restructured at a large cost to albertans, that's where Ed-Tel came from, then sold unceremoniously to private interests after the public had paid out for the restructuring and buyouts.

I have the same problems you listed in your post about Telus except it's much harder to get out of the bull#### contract.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

She got half the votes of a somewhat racist religiohs based wack job party candidate.

The NDP is rapidly sliding back into fringe party territory both federally and provincially.

I wouldn't read too much into the NDP votes in the byelection. I'm sure almost all of their supporters voted Liberal since their own candidate had pretty much 0% chance of winning. That and Justin is so dreamy.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I wouldn't read too much into the NDP votes in the byelection. I'm sure almost all of their supporters voted Liberal since their own candidate had pretty much 0% chance of winning. That and Justin is so dreamy.

They knew the Liberals had no shot either. As noted, Medicine Hat-Cardston-Warner is in one of the most conservative areas of the country.

And yes, we should not read too much into it. However, the federal NDP going from 9.7% of the vote to 1.0% in barely a year should give the NDP reason to pause.

[Resolute 14]

Notley considering passing a law that mandates 30% renewable energy in Alberta by 2030: http://business.financialpost.com/ne...-target-in-law

A law that would be as utterly worthless as the Klein-era Tories' "no debt" law was. It is a meaningless gesture that can be repealed as easily as it could be enacted. The only purpose of such a law is to spend taxpayer money to promote the party.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Notley considering passing a law that mandates 30% renewable energy in Alberta by 2030: http://business.financialpost.com/ne...-target-in-law

A law that would be as utterly worthless as the Klein-era Tories' "no debt" law was. It is a meaningless gesture that can be repealed as easily as it could be enacted. The only purpose of such a law is to spend taxpayer money to promote the party.

Lets pass into law something that we have no idea about how its going to be done or how its going to be executed.

Its a unicorn law and just reflects how utterly stupid and disconnected Notley is.