The moral philosophy of favouring pets over humans

[Patek23]

Originally posted by moon+Sep 8 2005, 05:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moon @ Sep 8 2005, 05:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flaming Homer@Sep 8 2005, 04:45 PM

Please don't make me look up all the links, but there are many articles and written thoeries about how Raptors were smarter than humans.

Thats all they are is theories. No way anyone could say that Raptors were smarter than humans.



It would be pretty tough for me to choose to save an adult human life over my dogs. A baby is a completely different story but as for an adult that I do not know over my dogs, I really think I would choose my dogs. [/b][/quote]
So is the big bang, I didn't see anyone simply saying "thats just a theory!", pretty funny that people change so quickly. I have no problem accepting that the big bang theory may be true I just don't accept it as 100% accurate, just as I take this one/

[Winsor_Pilates]

Wow. Honestly makes me sick to hear that people would save their pets over humans. WTF is wrong with you people.
No wonder the world is so fataed up. When people all around the world desperately need all kinds of help, and people wouldn't even help their neighbours over stupid animals, we have major problems.
Reading garbage like that really makes me worry about the future of our species.

[Patek23]

Originally posted by Winsor_Pilates@Sep 8 2005, 05:49 PM
Wow. Honestly makes me sick to hear that people would save their pets over humans. WTF is wrong with you people.
No wonder the world is so fataed up. When people all around the world desperately need all kinds of help, and people wouldn't even help their neighbours over stupid animals, we have major problems.
Reading garbage like that really makes me worry about the future of our species.

Why what makes us SO special? A life is a life. Dogs are helpless in certain situation. If humans are so superior why do they use this superiority and save themselves? because we are equally as vulnerable. I'll tell you this my dog has been nicer too me than any person I've met in my life, so why the fata should I care more about you?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally posted by Flaming Homer+Sep 8 2005, 05:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flaming Homer @ Sep 8 2005, 05:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Winsor_Pilates@Sep 8 2005, 05:49 PM
Wow. Honestly makes me sick to hear that people would save their pets over humans. WTF is wrong with you people.
No wonder the world is so fataed up. When people all around the world desperately need all kinds of help, and people wouldn't even help their neighbours over stupid animals, we have major problems.
Reading garbage like that really makes me worry about the future of our species.

Why what makes us SO special? A life is a life. [/b][/quote]
A life is a life?
Do you eat meat? Have you ever killed a bug? Worn leather?

Now would you kill, eat or wear the skin of a human?
(Legalities aside)

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Flaming Homer+Sep 8 2005, 05:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flaming Homer @ Sep 8 2005, 05:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Winsor_Pilates@Sep 8 2005, 05:49 PM
Wow. Honestly makes me sick to hear that people would save their pets over humans. WTF is wrong with you people.
No wonder the world is so fataed up. When people all around the world desperately need all kinds of help, and people wouldn't even help their neighbours over stupid animals, we have major problems.
Reading garbage like that really makes me worry about the future of our species.

Why what makes us SO special? A life is a life. Dogs are helpless in certain situation. If humans are so superior why do they use this superiority and save themselves? because we are equally as vulnerable. I'll tell you this my dog has been nicer too me than any person I've met in my life, so why the fata should I care more about you? [/b][/quote]
Without getting into why I think humans are special I think saving another human is an instinct for the survival of our species. This is why women and children are the first into the lifeboat. A man can provide seed for many women and so may not be as important in the big picture and it may also be an excuse for eliminating rivals. Pets would be the last on any logical list. We owe a responsibility to our pets but keep our priorities in order.

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by Vulcan+Sep 9 2005, 01:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Vulcan @ Sep 9 2005, 01:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Why what makes us SO special? A life is a life. Dogs are helpless in certain situation. If humans are so superior why do they use this superiority and save themselves? because we are equally as vulnerable. I'll tell you this my dog has been nicer too me than any person I've met in my life, so why the fata should I care more about you?

Without getting into why I think humans are special I think saving another human is an instinct for the survival of our species. This is why women and children are the first into the lifeboat. A man can provide seed for many women and so may not be as important in the big picture and it may also be an excuse for eliminating rivals. Pets would be the last on any logical list. We owe a responsibility to our pets but keep our priorities in order. [/b][/quote]
We aren't talking about saving the person who repopulates the human race here...

[Cowperson]

Originally posted by Winsor_Pilates@Sep 8 2005, 05:49 PM
Wow. Honestly makes me sick to hear that people would save their pets over humans. WTF is wrong with you people.
No wonder the world is so fataed up. When people all around the world desperately need all kinds of help, and people wouldn't even help their neighbours over stupid animals, we have major problems.
Reading garbage like that really makes me worry about the future of our species.

Going back to the premise as outlined in the post starting this thread, do you object to people giving money to animal charities instead of charities for, say, the human homeless, effectively prioritizing animals over humans?

Cowperson

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally posted by Winsor_Pilates@Sep 8 2005, 06:05 PM
A life is a life? Do you eat meat? Have you ever killed a bug? Worn leather?

Now would you kill, eat or wear the skin of a human?
(Legalities aside)

Since I wasn't the one that was asked, I'll skip the first set of questions. And I answered earlier in the thread anyhow.

But as for killing humans, it has been done... while this may seem morally reprehensible to you, I'm sure that if it wasn't for the legality issue there would be a lot more lax morals.

[shoestring]

Re; people wouldn't even help their neighbours over stupid animals, we have major problems.
Neighbours ,friends ,family are a little different. Pets are our kids,topping out at 7 in human intelligience,I have heard, we are duty bound to protect them.
I think this relates to cow's post too. They are defenceless souls,probably waiting for his master to lead him. Humans we hope will fend for themselves.
But there are a lot of defenceless human souls too. How do we know the money gets to them? Are dog owners more trustworthy? Or do we assume that?
Lots of morals,ethics and scruples to question. edited for this .period.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard+Sep 8 2005, 05:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mean Mr. Mustard @ Sep 8 2005, 05:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flaming Homer@Sep 8 2005, 05:06 PM
I love my dog too much, I would rescue her over anything excludng family members, it's a dog eat dog (pardon the pun) world out there and my family comes first to me, after that I'll worry about you, and that's just the way I see things.

So what if someone else was put in a situation where they could either rescue their pet or they could rescue your mother or your sister - or anyone you care about. You wouldn't have any problem with them rescuing their pet and leaving your loved ones to die. Sorry but that is pretty messed up in my mind. [/b][/quote]
Exactly.

That is what you are saying Homer -- that if someone chose their dog over your mother or sister, then that's fine.

Frankly speaking, if someone let my child or best friend or brother die in order to save their dog, I'd probably kill the dog just out of spite.

Seriously people, could you really live the rest of your life knowing you let a human being die so you could have a few more years with your dog?

[moon]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Sep 8 2005, 07:38 PM


That is what you are saying Homer -- that if someone chose their dog over your mother or sister, then that's fine.

Frankly speaking, if someone let my child or best friend or brother die in order to save their dog, I'd probably kill the dog just out of spite.

Seriously people, could you really live the rest of your life knowing you let a human being die so you could have a few more years with your dog?

I think I could live with that as easily as I could knowing that I let my dogs die.

[FireFly]

And what if the person you save turns out to be a rapist, murderer, or drug dealer?

[Shawnski]

Originally posted by FireFly@Sep 8 2005, 08:53 PM
And what if the person you save turns out to be a rapist, murderer, or drug dealer?

Luck of the draw...

The pet saved could also be one that suddenly turns on a child.

[4X4]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Sep 8 2005, 09:19 AM
Farley Mowatt.

I read a few of his books when I was a kid. Animal books. Good books IIRC.





I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if this has been said. I am an animal lover. I think the reason that I would be so inclined to save my dog's life is because she's never, ever done me wrong.
That's the thing about pets. They love you unconditionally. How can you turn your back on that? I could never abandon my dog.

[Patek23]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Sep 8 2005, 07:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Sep 8 2005, 07:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

So what if someone else was put in a situation where they could either rescue their pet or they could rescue your mother or your sister - or anyone you care about. You wouldn't have any problem with them rescuing their pet and leaving your loved ones to die. Sorry but that is pretty messed up in my mind.

Exactly.

That is what you are saying Homer -- that if someone chose their dog over your mother or sister, then that's fine.

Frankly speaking, if someone let my child or best friend or brother die in order to save their dog, I'd probably kill the dog just out of spite.

Seriously people, could you really live the rest of your life knowing you let a human being die so you could have a few more years with your dog? [/b][/quote]
I'd have the same feelings, I'd be extremely passed, because thats my family and I want whats best for them. Everyone is entitled to it. But for the guy who chose his dog over my mom/sister the only thing that would matter to him would be he saved a family member. I'd probably want to kill him, but If it was the other way around, shinguard I'd prbably die for my dog. You can call it obsessive but my dog isn't like a dog too me, she gets meals, not dog food I walk her as often as I can and she has cheered me up on some of the worst days of my life. She spent the first two years of her life with parvo and mange with porcupine (sp?) quills all over her which eventually skin grew around them, she was attacked by coyotes and wolves numerous times and was beaten almost to death by an old native women on a reserve. When she was found she was almost shot by the peace officer but was taken to the vet after she cried like no bodies business. To me she deserves anything I can give too her, so I'd die for my dog and I could go on with my day without batting an eyelash if I had to sacrifice a stranger for my dog. Call me crazy,retarted, mentally ill or whatever you want but thats just the way
I feel about my dog.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally posted by Cowperson
Going back to the premise as outlined in the post starting this thread, do you object to people giving money to animal charities instead of charities for, say, the human homeless, effectively prioritizing animals over humans?

Abandoning the "dog vs. man in a burning building" debate and returning to this one, a simple answer:

Nope.

People may feel more comfortable donating to a charity for animals because they think animals will appreciate it more, as insane as that sounds. Obviously a dog doesn't appreciate the work required to make him a meal that magically arrives day after day...a dog doesn't have the intelligence (or does it, Homer?) Still, some of the evidence on TV indicates that many humans are also incapable of appreciating the help offered...shooting at rescuers, stealing TVs, etc, refusing to evacuate, etc. People might begin to prioritize "human" charities if people wagged their tails when they were helped out, or just said freakin' "thanks."

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Sep 8 2005, 06:42 PM
Going back to the premise as outlined in the post starting this thread, do you object to people giving money to animal charities instead of charities for, say, the human homeless, effectively prioritizing animals over humans?

Cowperson

I do object.
If people give to both charities, that's great, but humans should be first priority. Especially since this scenario eliminates the personal/family variable that many posters have used as reason to save their pets first.
In this case, it would likely be stranger animals, and stranger people, so people should definately be first.

Even if viewed from a completely selfish standpoint that some posters here seem to have, the human charity would be a better bet.
By eliminating, homelessness, poverty, diseases etc. you also elimate burdens on our social welfare systems and help prevent the rising of other issues such as violence stemed from poverty.
In the end this results in less taxes and safer, healthier lives for everyone.
Saving a dog, does little more than save a dog.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by fotze+Sep 8 2005, 08:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (fotze @ Sep 8 2005, 08:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Exactly.

That is what you are saying Homer -- that if someone chose their dog over your mother or sister, then that's fine.

Frankly speaking, if someone let my child or best friend or brother die in order to save their dog, I'd probably kill the dog just out of spite.

Seriously people, could you really live the rest of your life knowing you let a human being die so you could have a few more years with your dog?

Well this is ridiculous but if you killed my dog cause some guy chose to save my dog over your loved one, I would probably kill you family out of spite. Which is ridiculous, at least kill the guy who made the dumb decision not the goofy dog who knows no better.

But I would save the person, but I would sure give consideraion on how to save the dog as well. [/b][/quote]
Well sure it's ridiculous, but if the fantastic scenario came about where some stranger saved his effing poodle over someone I loved then I wouldn't be happy.

If it was some random guy who saved some random dog over a person I care about then it's the guy I'm "unhappy" with, not the random dog.

[RougeUnderoos]

This conversation reminds me of some friends of mine. They are a married couple and he brought one cat, she brought two when they got hitched. It was a hell of a deal to get them all to live together peacefully. Fighting, scratching, shtting, puking, wrecking every stitch of furniture in the house. Veterinarian, food and kitty litter bills out the ring-ding that they could not afford. These people sacrificed a hell of a lot to keep all three of their cats together under one roof.

Then the woman had a baby (human) and the Doc said that baby was allergic to cats, and the cats were gone, adopted out or given away, by sundown..

My point is this... actually I don't know what it is. But people are more important.

[Hakan]

Goddam, I hope there aren't more dog loving hicks in the real world as in this thread.

The idea of saving a pet over a human is inconceivable to me.

"Blah blah, I love my dogs though"