Liberals popularity rising

[Azure]

Originally posted by MarchHare@Oct 20 2005, 01:36 PM

Making gay marriage legal isn't forcing anything on anyone. You're perfectly free not to marry a gay man if you don't want to.

On the other hand, banning gay marriages is forcing that morality on others. If it's banned, gay couples who wish to get married are not free to do so.

Do you see the difference?

Really? So if two gays come to a priest in the Catholic Church and demand to be married, that priest has every right to refuse them that marriage?

[evman150]

Originally posted by transplant99@Oct 20 2005, 03:08 PM
errrrr.....ummmm.....no?

What the hell is your point though?

The whites hating the blacks.

The theists hating the gays.

I don't see how they are entirely different situations.

My point is that just because a lot of people believe something does not make it right. Especially when that "a lot of people" is the lower tier of society intelligence-wise.

[Azure]

Originally posted by evman150@Oct 20 2005, 04:27 PM

The theists hating the gays.

So you say everyone that believes in a God is now gay-hating? Even the gays that believe in a God?

[transplant99]

The whites hating the blacks.

The theists hating the gays.

I don't see how they are entirely different situations.

My point is that just because a lot of people believe something does not make it right. Especially when that "a lot of people" is the lower tier of society intelligence-wise.

Whites don't hate blacks....some did, but the majority...nope.

the "theists" (no idea who these are BTW) dont't hate gays either...i don't think. Cause i have no idea who you are talking about.

The federal Conservatives though....i can utterly assure you thye dont hate them, or they wouldn't be campaiging for equal rights for them. At least as I see it.

I don't see how they are entirely different situations.

true, complete fantasies are comparable....i suppose.

My point is that just because a lot of people believe something does not make it right.

Correct...much like a "lot of people" think that gays should be allowed the term marriage. Doesn't make it right.

Especially when that "a lot of people" is the lower tier of society intelligence-wise.

One more time....huh?

[evman150]

Originally posted by Azure@Oct 20 2005, 03:32 PM
So you say everyone that believes in a God is now gay-hating? Even the gays that believe in a God?

Not every white person in the past hated blacks.

I see all you can do with my argument is nitpick.

:unsure:

[MarchHare]

Really? So if two gays come to a priest in the Catholic Church and demand to be married, that priest has every right to refuse them that marriage?

Yes.

Didn't you know that? Canada'a gay marriage law only applies to civil marriages. Religious organizations are perfectly free to marry or not marry anyone they choose.

[Azure]

Originally posted by evman150@Oct 20 2005, 04:35 PM
Not every white person in the past hated blacks.

I see all you can do with my argument is nitpick.

:unsure:

Well you said theists hate gays and theists are usually those that believe in a God, so everyone that believes in a God, including gays, hate gays according to your arguement. If you don't like it, change it.

[transplant99]

Not every white person in the past hated blacks.

Agreed...yet YOU said...

The whites hating the blacks.

Which is it?

Since you generalized everything, (ridiculously i might add) I'm gonna have NO problem assuming that "nitpicking" is a selective defense of a completely unarmed and uninformed Liberal.

What's new?

[Azure]

Originally posted by MarchHare@Oct 20 2005, 04:43 PM

Yes.

Didn't you know that? Canada'a gay marriage law only applies to civil marriages. Religious organizations are perfectly free to marry or not marry anyone they choose.

Really? So how long do you think it will take before the Catholic Church is accused of discrimination because they don't marry gays?

[transplant99]

Yes.

Didn't you know that? Canada'a gay marriage law only applies to civil marriages. Religious organizations are perfectly free to marry or not marry anyone they choose.

You will be amazed...


Again...this is coming from someone (me)who freely supports and demands equal rights to ALL....


HOC 02/05

We have already seen some of these things come to pass since this article was written in human rights tribunals and lower courts across the country. We have already seen a Catholic Knights of Columbus hall challenged before the B.C. Human Rights Commission for refusing to grant permission for a same sex wedding reception on church owned property.

We have seen civil marriage commissioners in British Columbia, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, who have religious or philosophical objections to same sex marriage, removed or threatened to be removed from positions by their government. We have heard the federal Minister responsible for Democratic Reform saying such employees should be punished or fired.

We have seen the former Minister of International Trade saying that churches, including the Catholic Church in Quebec, have no right to be involved in any such debate. These may only be the beginning of a chilling effect on religious freedom for those groups and individuals who continue not to believe in same sex marriage.

Sorry, but this just proves, (if true and im not there so i dont know) that the can of worms that legislating a change to the definition of a godamn word can do.

Compromise is the answer....and the gay community ISNT the one making it. I hold them accountable for that.

They have been offered everything that they would gat as regocnized as "marriages", yet it is not enough. I DO understand their argument, but I cannot support it. Life is all about give and take, regardless of orientations/skin color/business your in.

[FireFly]

So you really think that the Conservatives, were they ever to gain power, would reverse the bill allowing gays to marry when it was a Supreme Court ruling that said they could?

At least the Conservatives have morals. You may not agree with all of them, but I assure you they do not include, lying, or stealing. When you vote in the Liberals, you're saying it's okay to steal your money. Frankly, I would rather argue more about gays marrying, (which really, it's the wording and timing of the bill there were issues with,) than allow another 4 or 5 years of having the Liberals steal the money right out of my damn pocket.

[Azure]

Ands it funny because the gays aren't exactly dominating the news, demanding equal rights.

[evman150]

Whites don't hate blacks....some did, but the majority...nope.

I never said they did. I was making a generalization.

the "theists" (no idea who these are BTW) dont't hate gays either...i don't think. Cause i have no idea who you are talking about.

In general theists are strongly against homosexuality.

The federal Conservatives though....i can utterly assure you thye dont hate them, or they wouldn't be campaiging for equal rights for them. At least as I see it.

They might not say so explicitly, but it is implied. They do not believe gays are equal to the rest of us. That is hate. That is wrong.

true, complete fantasies are comparable....i suppose.

I have no idea why you're calling it a fantasy. The bigotry is blinding you I suppose.

Correct...much like a "lot of people" think that gays should be allowed the term marriage. Doesn't make it right.

My "a lot of people" is guided by our sense of right and wrong, our belief in equal rights and our disdain for hate. Your "a lot of people" is guided by a 2000 year old tall tale, your belief that everyone is equal unless you're different and your disdain for anything that diverges from the teachings of Christianity.


One more time....huh?

Yep. It's true. The truth hurts sometimes. I know.

[Azure]

Originally posted by FireFly@Oct 20 2005, 04:55 PM
So you really think that the Conservatives, were they ever to gain power, would reverse the bill allowing gays to marry when it was a Supreme Court ruling that said they could?

At least the Conservatives have morals. You may not agree with all of them, but I assure you they do not include, lying, or stealing. When you vote in the Liberals, you're saying it's okay to steal your money. Frankly, I would rather argue more about gays marrying, (which really, it's the wording and timing of the bill there were issues with,) than allow another 4 or 5 years of having the Liberals steal the money right out of my damn pocket.

I agree. What is better, stealing our money, or arguing about the gay marriage ideal?

[Azure]

Originally posted by evman150@Oct 20 2005, 04:57 PM
I never said they did. I was making a generalization.

In general theists are strongly against homosexuality.

My "a lot of people" is guided by our sense of right and wrong, our belief in equal rights and our disdain for hate. Your "a lot of people" is guided by a 2000 year old tall tale, your belief that everyone is equal unless you're different and your disdain for anything that diverges from the teachings of Christianity.

Since when is someone who believes in God against homosexuality? Aren't they against gay marriage? And since does not believing in equal rights for gays make you suddenly hate them?

[evman150]

Originally posted by Azure@Oct 20 2005, 04:02 PM
And since does not believing in equal rights for gays make you suddenly hate them?

"I don't hate black people, I just think they should be chained up for their whole lives."

Excuse me?

Tell me if I'm wrong, but does the bible not teach that being homosexual is a sin or something?

This whole argument makes me want to puke.

[MarchHare]

HOC 02/05

QUOTE
We have already seen some of these things come to pass since this article was written in human rights tribunals and lower courts across the country. We have already seen a Catholic Knights of Columbus hall challenged before the B.C. Human Rights Commission for refusing to grant permission for a same sex wedding reception on church owned property.

We have seen civil marriage commissioners in British Columbia, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, who have religious or philosophical objections to same sex marriage, removed or threatened to be removed from positions by their government. We have heard the federal Minister responsible for Democratic Reform saying such employees should be punished or fired.

We have seen the former Minister of International Trade saying that churches, including the Catholic Church in Quebec, have no right to be involved in any such debate. These may only be the beginning of a chilling effect on religious freedom for those groups and individuals who continue not to believe in same sex marriage.

That quote came from before the passage of the gay marriage bill. Find me an example of a church being sued -- and losing -- since the bill became law and then we'll talk. The bill was worded in such a way that no church would ever be forced to marry a gay couple if they chose not to. And prior to the bill being passed, the government even had the supreme court rule that such a provision was constitutional.

As for government employees (such as civil marriage commissioners) being fired if they refuse to grant a marriage license to a gay couple -- I don't see a problem with that. If they can't fulfill the requirements of their job they should be removed from it. It's not their place to pick and choose who the law applies to.

[Azure]

Originally posted by evman150@Oct 20 2005, 05:09 PM
"I don't hate black people, I just think they should be chained up for their whole lives."

Excuse me?

Tell me if I'm wrong, but does the bible not teach that being homosexual is a sin or something?

This whole argument makes me want to puke.

So who said that?

So what if the Bible calls it a sin, are those people not entitled to their beleifs? Or is your belief the one you can shove down everyone's throat and expect them not to puke? Religion plays a major, major part in many peoples lives. Or does that make you puke too?

And not everyone that is a theist reads the Bible, so your arguement is senseless, just like you think a theist's stand against gay marriage is senseless.

By the way, I know three gays right now that are theists. Do they make you puke too?

[Azure]

Originally posted by MarchHare@Oct 20 2005, 05:16 PM

That quote came from before the passage of the gay marriage bill. Find me an example of a church being sued -- and losing -- since the bill became law and then we'll talk. The bill was worded in such a way that no church would ever be forced to marry a gay couple if they chose not to. And prior to the bill being passed, the government even had the supreme court rule that such a provision was constitutional.

As for government employees (such as civil marriage commissioners) being fired if they refuse to grant a marriage license to a gay couple -- I don't see a problem with that. If they can't fulfill the requirements of their job they should be removed from it. It's not their place to pick and choose who the law applies to.

A government official is a different story the a priest or bishop.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by evman150@Oct 20 2005, 03:38 PM
Okay, so by saying I HATE what Hitler did because his government was full of HATE, I'm a hypocrite?

I don't think so.

Yes it's an extreme example, but it illustrates my point. Your argument is flawed.

If my argument is flawed, it is only because I am responding to an argument that makes no sense.

Where does Hitler fit into the comment I was referring to specifically?

You have repeatedly revealed your intolerance and hatred for people with religious beliefs, basically calling them even with the KKK. I hold a great deal of disdain for organized religion myself - probably at least as much as you evidently have - but I'm not going to start comparing people who believe other than I do to some of the most evil organizations on the planet.

Like I said, you only care when somoene elses opinion is crammed down your throat, but you are pefectly fine when your opinion is crammed down someone elses throat. If you can't see the hypocricy in that argument, I can only pity you.