Can CP become a "civil" place again?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by stone hands

I dont subscribe to the notion that this place is so hostile because they sucked this year, as has been mentioned in previous topics discussing the temperature of CP this year. If that was the case, this would have been an un-readable troll board for 4 of the last 6 years.

If you go back to the last 2-3 years of the Iginla era, there was a tonne of acrimony on this board between fans who thought the Flames were still a team that could do something in the playoffs, and those who thought the team desperately needed to sell off its core and rebuild. Lots of flame wars, lots of bannings.

When the team was rebuilding, people were calmer because they didn't expect much. Discussion mainly focused on prospects, drafting, the optimism of a more promising future. And the miracle Hartley season was a tonic.

The reason this forum is more negative now than 3 or 4 years ago is because expectations are higher. The team made moves that showed they're in win now mode. Treliving himself was a lot angrier yesterday than he was a couple seasons ago on garbage bag day.

Then there's the fatigue factor of supporting a chronically losing team. For a lot of long-time fans, I'm talking 20-30 year fans, this season was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[Winsor_Pilates]

People are frustrated with the team and I personally have never been as frustrated with the team as I am now. I think a number of posters probably feel that way as well.

While I don't think that warrants personal attacks on anyone, some level of voicing that frustration and ranting about the players/coaches/management is to be expected. That's part of the fan discussion of a sport.
Frankly we are quite tame compared to most sports teams and certainly other sports.

For me, the member to member attacks and mini arguments that sometimes take over a thread are for more annoying. Respect for other posters and differing opinions is a hard thing to find on the internet these days.

[Inglewood Jack]

regarding what's acceptable versus not when posting about Flames players and staff, here's 3 examples along the spectrum that I saw:

1. fire Gulutzan into the sun - not original or even amusing in the slightest, but it's standard internet speak that everyone understands the context of, so it gets a pass (but try to come up with something new during this long summer, guys)

2. if you see Gulutzan on the street, yell at or slap him - even if in jest this is obviously terrible and gladly almost nobody stooped to this level...almost

3. game day artwork featuring Gulutzan's decapitated head on a spike, with some puppets - eh I dunno about this one. a lot of people find it funny, but as a Flames fan it doesn't sit right with me even though I think our coach is bad at his job

yeah, there's a ton of gray area in and around this so we may never get to the ideal point. CP might be at its worst right now, but it's still far above where most other forums are at normally, so let's see if a few weeks of healing can bring things back to where they should be.

[CaptainCrunch]

I used to think that I wish that civility would return to this board, but that's entirely wishfull.

In an internet forum, people feed on conflict for whatever reason, and when there isn't enough its stoked.

some people have said, that when GG is fired or so and so is shot into the sun or traded, that the frustration will be over.

Nope, we might get 4 days of calm, and then the frustration and rage will slowly rotate around the room with a baleful bloody stare until it finds another target.

"I'm really happy that GG is gone, but when I was watching the highlights video I noticed that the towels aren't as crispy white as they should be. Its the trainers fault we need to fire him into the sun and find another trainer"

Or a person will get an email from the Flames office and rail that the idiot used a San Sarif font, and everyone who's anyone in marketing knows that you use a times New Roman 11 font, and that guy needs to be shot into the sun.

Controversy creates cash, lack of civility creates debate. Sometimes people think that attacking someone is debating, or dropping Fbombs even with **** in its place is a proper attempt to emphasize their point.

It is what it is, its not going to change no matter the call for civility.

the cold hard fact of the matter, and I've used it, is that the advice about thinking about what your saying as if you're saying it to the persons face never works because frankly most of us will never meet and the anonymous nature of the Interwebs makes us all 10 feet tall, 400 pounds of bullet proof twisted steel and sex appeal and that's not going to change.

To close this with a relevant or irrelevant quote that might make me look brilliant or silly, or sadistic and with some creative license

The Joker: You just couldn't let this go could you? This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. You truly are predictable aren't you? You won't stop calling me out out of some misplaced sense of self-righteousness, and I won't stop needling you, because you're just too much fun. I think you and I are destined to do this forever.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

regarding what's acceptable versus not when posting about Flames players and staff, here's 3 examples along the spectrum that I saw:

1. fire Gulutzan into the sun - not original or even amusing in the slightest, but it's standard internet speak that everyone understands the context of, so it gets a pass (but try to come up with something new during this long summer, guys)

2. if you see Gulutzan on the street, yell at or slap him - even if in jest this is obviously terrible and gladly almost nobody stooped to this level...almost

3. game day artwork featuring Gulutzan's decapitated head on a spike, with some puppets - eh I dunno about this one. a lot of people find it funny, but as a Flames fan it doesn't sit right with me even though I think our coach is bad at his job

yeah, there's a ton of gray area in and around this so we may never get to the ideal point. CP might be at its worst right now, but it's still far above where most other forums are at normally, so let's see if a few weeks of healing can bring things back to where they should be.

God, yes.

[CroFlames]

I think the day calgary blood started his self righteous crusade on CP is when things went downhill. Constantly attacking posters, culminating in gifgate.

The arena fiasco annoyed most fans and I think every post has frustrated undertones due partly because of how we perceive we've been treated by management.

Couple those things with a losing season that had high expectations and voila, sour fans.

If they hire AV and turn things around next season, things will become a lot more civil IMO.

[united]

[PepsiFree]

It happens here, it happens in off topic. It’s a weird combination of angry people venting who just want to be heard, which unfortunately really adds a negative vibe and makes it difficult to have an interesting discussion, and another selection of posters who simply can’t be disagreed with without being upset and loving personal attacks to make a point.

I would actually argue the off topic is somewhat better, as the topics are generally more serious and despite the heat that gets driven up in disagreements, people usually have to refrain from making it personal or it’d go way over the top (unless it’s iggy_oi, he just gets constant abuse lol).

I think people forget that hockey is a game, a game that’s meant to be fun and entertaining. I think it’s awesome to take it seriously and be a passionate fan, but we also need to remember that at the end of the day it’s just hockey. A lot of people carry far too much baggage into sport fandom and let it stand in for some of the other troubles in their lives.

Hockey is a wonderful game, and I still enjoy every minute of it, but less and less do I enjoy being a “fan” when it’s become sort of an ugly thing these days.

[Igottago]

I don't see the issue. Are you guys new to sports, or new to the internet?

You are going to see a wide range of opinions expressed in a wide range of ways. Yeah, its not always nice. You will see the same degree of vitriol printed in legitimate British newspapers about soccer teams.

Part of being a sports fan is venting, that's why people boo at games. Are you going to demand the Flames do something about booing the next time the crowd is upset at the dome?

I would actually hate this board start to sound more like the Calgary media homers. There is reason for the fans to be upset.

[PepsiFree]

In addition, a comment stuck out to me recently regarding the Vegas ATL, when someone jokingly said “they’re so nice, they clearly haven’t been fans long enough.” It was a joke, but I also think it was telling. Maybe they haven’t been fans long enough, but from what I’ve seen Vegas fans are some of the best in the league. Sure, winning helps, but they aren’t full of bitterness and spite. They just appreciate that they have hockey. Calgary fans need to get back to that. The Dome is notoriously quiet, the fan discourse is exceedingly hostile. If we lose this team it won’t just be because of the arena dispute, we’ll have ourselves to blame as well.

Think a little less about what being a fan means financially (“I’m a season ticket holder” “I bought a jersey” etc) and think more about what it means it terms of emotional support and attitude.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It happens here, it happens in off topic. It’s a weird combination of angry people venting who just want to be heard, which unfortunately really adds a negative vibe and makes it difficult to have an interesting discussion, and another selection of posters who simply can’t be disagreed with without being upset and loving personal attacks to make a point.

I would actually argue the off topic is somewhat better, as the topics are generally more serious and despite the heat that gets driven up in disagreements, people usually have to refrain from making it personal or it’d go way over the top (unless it’s iggy_oi, he just gets constant abuse lol).

I think people forget that hockey is a game, a game that’s meant to be fun and entertaining. I think it’s awesome to take it seriously and be a passionate fan, but we also need to remember that at the end of the day it’s just hockey. A lot of people carry far too much baggage into sport fandom and let it stand in for some of the other troubles in their lives.

Hockey is a wonderful game, and I still enjoy every minute of it, but less and less do I enjoy being a “fan” when it’s become sort of an ugly thing these days.

Yeah, this forum is free. But people spend real dollars of money to consume the NHL product, sometimes several thousand a year. Our preferred product is the NHL Flames, and frankly we are feeling ripped off.

So yes, it's just a game. But if Gillette kept selling me crappy razors year after year after year, I would be pissed off. It's just razors.

You could argue we are stupid that we cling to this NHL product over that, and you are probably right. So let us be mad!

[flylock shox]

I think it's fine to both vent and to engage in pretty heated debates on an internet forum. But there are two things I think everyone who posts should bear in mind:

1. Some of the people you are debating with are teenagers, so bear that in mind and act like an adult when you're posting (I can think of one teenager who was given a particularly rough ride in his early days on the forum);

2. Brian Burke sued people for defamation based on their internet comments about him, and other people (players, coaches, etc) in theory could do the same.

If we all keep those two things in mind before we post, it would go a long way to smoothing some of the rougher edges around here.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

So yes, it's just a game. But if Gillette kept selling me crappy razors year after year after year, I would be pissed off. It's just razors.

No, you would just stop buying Gillette. If you don’t like a product, you don’t keep paying for it.

But you do keep paying money into the Flames. Why? Figure out THAT reason, and embrace it. The Flames owe you nothing more than a game of hockey for the price of the ticket. That’s all. I get it, but if you’re just paying to see wins, you stand a good chance of not getting your money’s worth about 50% of the time. If you’re spending thousands of dollars, there are much better investments.

Im not a STH, but I go to games, and I just enjoy myself. I have a few drinks, cheer the home team, and just enjoy the fact that I get to watch the best hockey league in the world. That’s not to say it’s a better attitude, but I certainly don’t go home upset.

[Huntingwhale]

Need to start publicly shaming posters who say the same things over and over again simply to cause trouble around here. It's easy for the OP to make a thread like this and paint a brush over everyone, then everyone 'thanks' the post and you get a lot of comments that agree. But just like bad drivers, no one ever seems to think it's them. It's always someone else.

Start calling people out by name, and I think you'll see things perhaps change slowly. Then again I live in my own little world, so maybe this is a horrible idea. But if I was the King, that's how I would do things .

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

In addition, a comment stuck out to me recently regarding the Vegas ATL, when someone jokingly said “they’re so nice, they clearly haven’t been fans long enough.” It was a joke, but I also think it was telling. Maybe they haven’t been fans long enough, but from what I’ve seen Vegas fans are some of the best in the league. Sure, winning helps, but they aren’t full of bitterness and spite. They just appreciate that they have hockey. Calgary fans need to get back to that. The Dome is notoriously quiet, the fan discourse is exceedingly hostile. If we lose this team it won’t just be because of the arena dispute, we’ll have ourselves to blame as well.

Think a little less about what being a fan means financially (“I’m a season ticket holder” “I bought a jersey” etc) and think more about what it means it terms of emotional support and attitude.

There is absolutely no way you can compare a brand new team at the top of the league and the polar opposite Flames.

Vegas fans aren't full of bitterness and spite since they haven't had time or reason to be. You can't expect Flames fans to easily just tune out decades of disappointment and "just appreciate having hockey".
Find me any other sports team with a similar record to Calgary over many years and fans who are just happy.

[DuffMan]

Welcome to the internets, enjoy your stay

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Welcome to the internets, enjoy your stay

Pretty much this. There will always be antagonists and negativity, it comes with the territory. As far as arguments or attacks go, CP is very tame even when compared to a certain other hockey board, nevermind the rest of the interwebs. I think CP is well moderated, all things considered.

People say stupid #### and the repeat offenders are likely just looking for a reaction. Not giving them the time of day deprives them of the attention they're looking for. You can only control how you post and what type of example you want to set, don't take the noise and bickering too seriously.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Welcome to the internets, enjoy your stay

I've been on the interwebs as long (or longer) than a lot of the posters here have been alive. Old enough to have been witness to flame wars on Usenet.

It's nothing new.

That doesn't mean that it's right.

It doesn't mean that we can't change the paradigm. It's about how we go about discussing things - not our personal positions and beliefs.

Respect goes a long way in getting someone else - even someone diametrically opposed to your position - to listen.

[zamler]

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

There is absolutely no way you can compare a brand new team at the top of the league and the polar opposite Flames.

Vegas fans aren't full of bitterness and spite since they haven't had time or reason to be. You can't expect Flames fans to easily just tune out decades of disappointment and "just appreciate having hockey".
Find me any other sports team with a similar record to Calgary over many years and fans who are just happy.

I think you’ve missed the point. You don’t really have reason to be, no fan does. Maybe that’s just my own disagreement with negative fan culture, but as I said: Win or lose, I still have a good time and enjoy myself. Does losing suck? Yeah. Is winning a huge rush? Absolutely. But you’ve got no reason to carry the disappointment of a loss around with you. That’s on you to deal with.

I don’t monitor the negativity meter of other fans, I’m sure it’s high too, but we’re still one of the most low-energy buildings to play in, even compared to buildings with a lot less to cheer for.

It’s nice that we fill it up, but when you’re making as much noise as a near-empty rink in Arizona, that’s not much to be proud of. We look down our noses at Montreal for being negative and eating players and coaches alive, but at least they show up when they attend games.