CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[Enoch Root]

Further to my post above, maybe the stadium/fieldhouse idea makes sense as a separate project within the stampede grounds.

The stadium and the fieldhouse could both be very useful for the stampede. They would still be central. They would have more uses. And the economics would be easier to tackle because the cost of the land, the lack of cleanup costs, and the lack of other costs such as road re-routing etc, would substantially reduce the financial burdens of the project.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Further to my post above, maybe the stadium/fieldhouse idea makes sense as a separate project within the stampede grounds.

The stadium and the fieldhouse could both be very useful for the stampede. They would still be central. They would have more uses. And the economics would be easier to tackle because the cost of the land, the lack of cleanup costs, and the lack of other costs such as road re-routing etc, would substantially reduce the financial burdens of the project.

I think if they put the Arena in/near the Stampede Grounds (which, I personally think is the only sensible spot for the arena) it would be tough selling the Fieldhouse as a communal place on the stamped grounds. For a football stadium? sure, although i doubt the Stampede wants that much infrastructure on their land. But as a fieldhouse to serve Calgarians, it seems less than ideal place to put it.

[johnnybegaudreau]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You are 100% correct if the decision is to do Calgary Next or just leave everything the way it is.

However this little puppy that came out in 2010 suggests they are going to do something or at least are looking at it seriously.

http://www.realestateforums.com/ref/...thias_tita.pdf

And given the fact they mention moving Bow Trail, creating another 8th Avenue and a promenade they probably will need to move some creosote, add some utilities and build in some infrastructure.

This has zip to do with the Flames and their plan.

This is true. The point here is that by doing this the city maximizes the area in which they can draw revenue from. They also don't have to support the sheer volume of traffic for events. This means the changes they proposed can handle the traffic flow as well as make the area very pedestrian, resident and work friendly. Their plan is a better plan. WV in my opinion doesn't make sense viably from a tax perspective to invest in a huge stadium-complex because it just can't support the volume with infrastructure requried without major costs associated to it, which from a taxpaying perspective doesn't make economical sense. If we're talking about spending 900M on stampede grounds then it's a bit of a different argument. There's room to grow, room for infrastructure and the ability to in conjuntion with the stampede redevelop hte area to be a friendly year round environment.

[johnnybegaudreau]

someone mentioned 3 options and I couldn't find the post again to quote but basically the jist of it was and I paraphrase here (Apologies to original OP I want to give you credit):

1. The Flames pay the full 1.8 B do what they want without input
2. The Flames pay the cost of the building and infrastructure while the city pays the fieldhouse and cleanup costs
3. Maybe they split it down the middle 900K each.

OP suggested that they didnt see how 3 could even get it done. However, the city would be going all-in no problem on options 1 and 2. I agree.
I would add that to get 3 done.. and I think it is feasable is if they split the revenue costs 50/50. So the flames want a true public/private partnership revenue on all ticket sales for all events, all parking, all booking fees, all concessions should be split 50/50. And then as a tax payer i'd be fine with it.

When it comes to options 1 and 2. I think the point there is if the Flames/Stamps wanted to pay that much for a new home they'd just build a BC palce with retractable roof and they could litterally put it anywhere say 100m to buy the land and 1.2B to build your arena/stadium with retracable roof. And you're cheaper than building in WV and you literally own and control everything. There's a couple blocks of empty parking lots north west of the dome along 9ave and 12th st. You could literally buy those whole blocks and build your 1.2B arena stadium with a parkade and be set. People can stll park on stampede grounds and walk, the trains not far away. etc. Just as one idea. OFc You could work wtih Stampede to build on the grounds. Railtown maybe? But the thing is they dont' want to pay that much and so they claim can't afford it.

[Flash Walken]

The major complication here is the Stampeders. There is no good way to sell building them a stadium in this town at this time, and the reason ownership is so desperate for it is because they know a new stadium isn't economically viable for a league that is run by TV contract dollars instead of gate receipts.

There is room arguably to have a Calgary Flames hockey arena in the WV with condos and shops around it, and it might even make sense to the city to do some kind of deal with the Flames for the land in exchange for having input on all the planning.

This stupid football stadium that is also a community facility is what is throwing the whole thing off.

[TheScorpion]

What if they did this?

CSE pays all for a Flames/Hitmen/Roughnecks arena in the WV, surrounded by condos a la Maple Leaf Square.

The city funds half of a Stampeders stadium on the North Hill Mall site.

A fieldhouse, funded entirely by the city, is built at x location.

[getbak]

They're not going to build anything at North Hill Mall. That has never been a realistic site under consideration.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by getbak

They're not going to build anything at North Hill Mall. That has never been a realistic site under consideration.

Meh.

Someone had better build something there, and fast. NH Mall is the worst shopping complex in the city. That area needs some serious revitalization.

[nik-]

A modern movie theatre at North Hill would be fantastic. There are zero good theatres in the inner city and it's ridiculous.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by nik-

A modern movie theatre at North Hill would be fantastic. There are zero good theatres in the inner city and it's ridiculous.

Chinook is inner city, if you're stretching it a bit.

Eau Claire is no good.

[nik-]

Chinook is not inner city, I don't care what CREB says ... 60 blocks south is not inner city.

[calgarygeologist]

Regarding North Hill mall, it would be great to see a concept similar to the main strip in Deerfoot City adapted to the North Hill site.

[Bunk]

Concord Pacific bought the Sears site at North Hill. They will redevelop that portion of the site with high rises and retail. Bentall owns the mall, I would imagine a redevelopment of one form or another is inevitable, but not likely until Concord is well underway. Not gonna be an arena site.

[Jaydee]

Originally Posted by nik-

A modern movie theatre at North Hill would be fantastic. There are zero good theatres in the inner city and it's ridiculous.

Something similar to the cineplex in downtown Montreal would be sweet

[Bunk]

Supposedly, as part of the Eau Clare Market redevelopment Cineplex is staying on site in a new multiplex.

[nik-]

that would be fantastic, I hate having to travel to watch movies.

Now to wait until 2025 when that thing starts building

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

that would be fantastic, I hate having to travel to watch movies.

Now to wait until 2025 when that thing starts building

Christ. I'll be 50 by then. So by the time I can actually go there, I'll be a senior citizen basically.

[nik-]

also, I think at 50 you just stop going to movies and start yelling at clouds

[JiriHrdina]

I already do that.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by nik-

A modern movie theatre at North Hill would be fantastic. There are zero good theatres in the inner city and it's ridiculous.

And to think back in the day North Hill had one of the best screens in the city.

On topic, I think that area would work great for a field house and add a big ass aquatic center as well.