CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[Bingo]

that tweet was pretty vague. Could mean almost anything.

we all know the clean up will be expensive so saying "big $$$" could mean as expected, double what is expected, half of what is expected but still big dollars. Who the hell knows.

Additionally, if it is more expensive couldn't that also mean they need an anchor tenant more than ever pushing them to counter the Flames proposal in some fashion to not lose that opportunity?

If creosote did get into basements in the flood the city has to clean this up soon don't they? Just wondering if this is more of a call to get creative and counter than it is the end of a project.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Bingo

that tweet was pretty vague. Could mean almost anything.

we all know the clean up will be expensive so saying "big $$$" could mean as expected, double what is expected, half of what is expected but still big dollars. Who the hell knows.

Additionally, if it is more expensive couldn't that also mean they need an anchor tenant more than ever pushing them to counter the Flames proposal in some fashion to not lose that opportunity?

If creosote did get into basements in the flood the city has to clean this up soon don't they? Just wondering if this is more of a call to get creative and counter than it is the end of a project.

Didn't mean to imply this will be the end of the project, as conceptually, I am still ok with it. Just hoping it pushes the discussion forward and ends at least one part of the speculation.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

that tweet was pretty vague. Could mean almost anything.

we all know the clean up will be expensive so saying "big $$$" could mean as expected, double what is expected, half of what is expected but still big dollars. Who the hell knows.

Additionally, if it is more expensive couldn't that also mean they need an anchor tenant more than ever pushing them to counter the Flames proposal in some fashion to not lose that opportunity?

If creosote did get into basements in the flood the city has to clean this up soon don't they? Just wondering if this is more of a call to get creative and counter than it is the end of a project.

The tweet was posted more for the timeline and not the speculation of what $$$ means, but I agree it could be anything.

I think the more expensive the cleanup the less willing the city is to keep the project as is. The "anchor" tenant will effectively be the city so no tax revenues or sale proceeds will be realized on a large swath of the area. It's debatable whether an arena would attract more growth to that area as opposed to straight up Res/Com zoning.

Anyways, we shall soon find out the appetite of the public and council on this subject.

Glad to see we will hear something soon. The report should give us some new insight into the real mess that the area has created.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I think the more expensive the cleanup the less willing the city is to keep the project as is. The "anchor" tenant will effectively be the city so no tax revenues or sale proceeds will be realized on a large swath of the area. It's debatable whether an arena would attract more growth to that area as opposed to straight up Res/Com zoning.

When I said countering I see the possibility of the city pitching a percentage of the clean up tag to the CSEC as a counter to the Flames plan.

You can't really do that with any other partner (as far as I can imagine) because their projects wouldn't be big enough to take that on.

Just spit-balling. ...

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by polak

... I just want to see a real rendering of where the Flames will be playing hockey.

.... It's been 10 years....

[Frequitude]

I've done a complete 180 on the location of this facility over the last year.

I used to think the West Village was a great idea. Figured it would kick off West Village development and Crowchild/Memorial/Bow/14th realignment.

But now, as a citizen of this city, I just simply don't want an arena on that piece of land. This has nothing to do with CRLs, arena design, ticket taxes, combined football/hockey venues, parking, or anything like that. I just straight up don't want a massive box structure occupying that much potentially prime downtown riverfront real estate. I want that land to be a fantastic commercial and residential area. There's just so much great potential for that area in a couple decades once the East Village fills out.

Put the arena on the railtown lands.
-It is on less prime residential area (railroad tracks)
-It is close to the existing festival land (Stampede Grounds)
-The Green Line will pretty much go right through it and the Red Line is 2 blocks away
-It is still close to downtown
-Assuming proper above ground connection is made to the East Village it would help promote the build out of the East Village (restaurants, bars, etc.).

It just makes so much more sense from a city planning perspective.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Even that is ~6 years old.

[rage2]

I've been to MTS Center and Madison Square Garden this year for hockey games, and I go to about 1/2 the home Flames games. This sums it up nicely:



MSG app tells you wait time at all the nearby restaurants to your seats in realtime. There's so many and each running like an assembly line there are no waits. We were able to leave when the end of 1st horn sounded, take a piss, get food at one place, and drinks at another and get back to our seats with 4 mins of intermission remaining. And we were sitting at the last row of the upper bowl, pretty much as far as possible to the concourse.

At the Dome, you literally choose 1, and have to leave with 2 mins before the period ends to accomplish 1 feat in hopes that you get lucky and can cram in a second feat (food or drinks order) to get back to your seats in time for the start of the next period. That photo was shot after taking a piss. There is no way I'm getting any nachos till next intermission.

The problem at the Dome isn't just the concourse is small, there's actually a decent amount of room. The problem is that a single concourse handles 2/3 of the capacity (remaining 1/3 handled by the basement "club" concourse and the PL handled by the 2 little shops way up at the top). Every other modern stadium divides each seating area into its own concourse with food, bathroom, and everything else. MSG has something like 5 or 6 floors of separation between different seating zones and suites. MTS has 3 floors splitting the 100/200, suites and 300's. That's why it's much easier to get around.

Then there's our PL seating. Talk about being completely disconnected from the game with terrible sightlines (exception is row 1-3 PL). Any other arena, the nosebleeds aren't actually nosebleeds, and you get great sightlines and excellent view of the game, and connection to the rest of the fans (and not just PL fans).

[Tyler]

Via @metrocalgary

BREAKING: City's review of #CalgaryNext project shows costs will double w/ land, infrastructure, remediation and financing. Up to $1.83B

This project is dead. Plan B Ken King..

[HotHotHeat]

Lol. Just resign, Ken.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Yikes.

[East Coast Flame]

I've never had a problem going to the bathroom, buying a beer and making it back to my seat in time for the next period. Jeez, you guys make it sound like the Saddledome is basically downtown Hong Kong during rush hour.

[polak]

The "Ken King" starter pack:

[calf]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Via @metrocalgary

BREAKING: City's review of #CalgaryNext project shows costs will double w/ land, infrastructure, remediation and financing. Up to $1.83B

This project is dead. Plan B Ken King..

Well yeah, of course it's going to cost more when you include ALL the costs.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Yikes. Need to see the breakdown of costs, but, yikes.

[East Coast Flame]

Wow

[East Coast Flame]

CBC article:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ject-1.3545509

"Administration has come to the conclusion that CalgaryNext is not feasible in its present form or location," the report reads.

The best alternative, according to the report, is to build a new arena at Stampede Park and a new football stadium and field house at the existing McMahon Stadium/Foothills Stadium site at the University of Calgary.

[polak]

Originally Posted by calf

Well yeah, of course it's going to cost more when you include ALL the costs.

If the city has to pay 1.4 Billion dollars for a silly sports complex, it's not happening. Regardless of how you categorize the costs.

Edit: "Of the $1.8-billion total, the report estimates the total city contribution would be between $1.2 billion and $1.4 billion."

[goodyear]

Ken King is the Bruno Cabolco of Sports Excutives...except with more years away.

He is 10 years away from being 10 years away to get a new arena built but also has used 10 years already.

[calf]

Originally Posted by polak

If the city has to pay 1.4 Billion dollars for a silly sports complex, it's not happening. Regardless of how you categorize the costs.

Edit: "Of the $1.8-billion total, the report estimates the total city contribution would be between $1.2 billion and $1.4 billion."

Agreed. I was more alluding to the fact that Ken King was being disingenuous at best with his estimate. Not including financing, remediation, and other infrastructure is a huge miss.