2 dead & 6 injured as teens take after hours sled ride down Winsport bobsleigh track

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Zero sentimental thinking here. It's a logical critique of your statement.

You are the one that suggested that two of them would have had the information available to conduct an accurate risk assessment when clearly that is not the case.

When in fact the complete opposite to your statement is far closer to the truth in that if they had the information available that there was a barrier on the course they would not have set foot on the course.

This is the kind of thinking that I am taking umbrage with. They could conduct a risk assessment. They could have walked the length of the track. My only point is that they bear some responsibility for this, acting as if they winds of fate blew against them this one night is false thinking.

They didn't know the gate was there - therefore they had a 0% or 100% chance of surviving the trip. Those are terrible odds!

Look, I grew up on a farm. I did all sorts of dangerous things, and sometimes I got hurt. My brother fractured his spine jumping off our house on to a trampoline, which then required a bunch of bone grafts and major surgery. It was pretty horrible, but at no point was it assumed by anyone that it was a tragedy. It was the almost inevitable consequence to a heedless action.

If we keep making these banal statements about the fragility of life etc... we miss the real moral lesson, which is that humans make choices, and unfortunately, we must bear the consequences of those choices.

Anyway, as someone who has lost a few friends in accidents similar to this, I certainly feel sad for the family. It is a wretched thing to lose someone you love so young.

[Raekwon]

Yeah, why didn't they walk down the entire giant hill with their flashlights out checking for risks and then walk back up.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

Yeah, why didn't they walk down the entire giant hill with their flashlights out checking for risks and then walk back up.

Why didn't they do it in the day time, when it would have been easier to do a risk assessment, no flash lights needed.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by peter12

Look, I grew up on a farm. I did all sorts of dangerous things, and sometimes I got hurt. My brother fractured his spine jumping off our house on to a trampoline, which then required a bunch of bone grafts and major surgery. It was pretty horrible, but at no point was it assumed by anyone that it was a tragedy. It was the almost inevitable consequence to a heedless action.

If we keep making these banal statements about the fragility of life etc... we miss the real moral lesson, which is that humans make choices, and unfortunately, we must bear the consequences of those choices.
.

None of that excludes it from being tragic.

If your brother died, it would have been considered a tragedy I'm sure by many. Not by you, you would have slapped your mother, telling her what an emotional fool she was being. But by everyone else, the few non-Robot people left on Earth

[peter12]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

None of that excludes it from being tragic.

If your brother died, it would have been considered a tragedy I'm sure by many. Not by you, you would have slapped your mother, telling her what an emotional fool she was being. But by everyone else, the few non-Robot people left on Earth

I suppose this is just a semantic argument? Maybe it comes across as me being really cold. That obviously was not the intention. I view tragedy as being inherent in circumstances that were unavoidable or that did not have inevitable consequences. So while I can call this particular situation miserable or horrible or gut-wrenching, I would definitely not call it tragic. Doesn't mean that I am a robot.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by peter12

I suppose this is just a semantic argument? Maybe it comes across as me being really cold. That obviously was not the intention. I view tragedy as being inherent in circumstances that were unavoidable or that did not have inevitable consequences. So while I can call this particular situation miserable or horrible or gut-wrenching, I would definitely not call it tragic. Doesn't mean that I am a robot.

I see and understand where you are coming from P12.

I would suggest that your thoughts/opinion are not unreasonable, maybe just poorly timed.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by peter12

I suppose this is just a semantic argument? Maybe it comes across as me being really cold. That obviously was not the intention. I view tragedy as being inherent in circumstances that were unavoidable or that did not have inevitable consequences. So while I can call this particular situation miserable or horrible or gut-wrenching, I would definitely not call it tragic. Doesn't mean that I am a robot.

So something like the Titanic would not be a tragedy?

It's the outcome of these events that is tragic, not the instrument.

[peter12]

Well, for everyone who sailed with the Titanic who did not know about the weakness of the ship's hull, or the lack of preparation on board for a potential sinking, it was tragic.

For those with the ability to properly make those assessments, no, it was not a tragedy.

[troutman]

The CBE Crisis Unit attended at Manning and Westmount yesterday. Hearing good things about great support provided.

A celebration of life for the twins is scheduled for Thursday afternoon.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by troutman

The CBE Crisis Unit attended at Manning and Westmount yesterday. Hearing good things about great support provided.

A celebration of life for the twins is scheduled for Thursday afternoon.

MMF will be attending. May I be his +1?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by peter12

MMF will be attending. May I be his +1?

You know that answer is always yes.

[FanIn80]

Oh you two.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Oh look another CP thread devolved into personal attacks. One would be surprised to discover the average age on this website.

[MrMastodonFarm]

What? No. 100% none of what peter and I replied to each other was a personal attack.

[peter12]

I have a hard time keeping up with MMF's immoral accusations myself, but I think that he encroached upon the ad hominem at least twice.

[Locke]

If peter12 and MMF want to sit down over a beer or two I will personally attend to moderate the discussion.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by peter12

Well, for everyone who sailed with the Titanic who did not know about the weakness of the ship's hull, or the lack of preparation on board for a potential sinking, it was tragic.

For those with the ability to properly make those assessments, no, it was not a tragedy.

What? This seriously makes no sense. So the Titanic was a tragedy for mostly everyone except for the manufacturer of the ships hull?! So this event is a tragedy for mostly everyone who had no idea about the existence of that gate. Except for the boys, not a tragedy for them because obviously they should have considered the possibility that a gate might be present? And not a tragedy for the people who work at COP and knew about the gate.

If they didn't know the gate was there, why would they think to include that in their "risk assessment"? Besides the fact that, really, what 17 year old is good at conducting effective risk assessments? The injury statistics for people aged 15-24 are really high. Because people in that age bracket suck at risk assessments. Plus add in potentially some alcohol and peer pressure... I just don't see how it's not a tragedy.

Anyways. The whole thing is really bothering me and I don't even know anyone personally or peripherally impacted. It's just awful.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Locke

If peter12 and MMF want to sit down over a beer or two I will personally attend to moderate the discussion.

I'll wire up their chairs with tazers and have you control them with a button.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by troutman

The CBE Crisis Unit attended at Manning and Westmount yesterday. Hearing good things about great support provided.

A celebration of life for the twins is scheduled for Thursday afternoon.

I'm very impressed with how the CBE handles situations like this. My kids go to William Aberhart (one of the injured boys attends this school) and the teachers are provided with fact sheets that they went over with the students during their first class of the day yesterday. Basically just letting them know what had happened, and what the facts were as much as possible. Really helps the students separate fact from rumors etc. Unfortunately this is the second time this had occurred at Aberhart this year but I am impressed with how the schools handle it. They also told the students what was planned, and how to access any help if they felt they needed it. An email from the school was sent to parents yesterday as well keeping us abreast of what was happening.

[polak]

When I went to O'Byrne and there was a kid who died from an illness and I was kind of shocked that there wasn't any sort of mention of it at school besides a quick comment during the announcements. It was shocking to me at the time because we've had "prayers" and "celebrations" over the dumbest stuff throughout my entire k-12 education but didn't do anything to honor this kid.

Messed up if you ask me. Glad to hear that's no longer the case.