Racist or not? Or just racially insensitive?

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Not racist but he did it on purpose to get a rise out of people.

If he did it on purpose to get a reaction, then I would claim it's racist.

[HPLovecraft]

Those doing the offending don't do the measuring on whether something is offensive or hurtful or not.

The "victim," so to speak, is the authoritative voice on the matter. If black people find the act of white people dressing up as black people and painting their faces offensive, than it's offensive. It frankly doesn't matter if a white person that isn't related in any way to the offensive act does or doesn't find it so.

[WilderPegasus]

Does Canada even have a history of blackface? If not this should not be considered any more offensive than the "sexist" act of a man dressing as a woman or vice versa.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Insensitivity aside, I just sorta question why any white guy would think that it's a good costume idea. Obviously you're just going to look like a white guy in facepaint dressed as Michael Jackson. Not everyone is going to be equally able to pull off every halloween costume. If I've got a choice between going out for Halloween as Iginla or Kiprusoff, it's going to be the guy that I have sorta similar skintones to. Doesn't matter which player I like more. That's not me being racially sensitive, that's just knowing what's going to work as a costume.

All those people who dressed up like characters out of Avatar after it came out shouldn't have done that since they didn't have the rigth skintone.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Those doing the offending don't do the measuring on whether something is offensive or hurtful or not.

The "victim," so to speak, is the authoritative voice on the matter. If black people find the act of white people dressing up as black people and painting their faces offensive, than it's offensive. It frankly doesn't matter if a white person that isn't related in any way to the offensive act does or doesn't find it so.

So it's impossible to overreact to an offense? How could it be if the victim is the only one who can measure the offense? Personally, I find the suggestion that people are incapable of empathy unless they have lived through the same experience far more troubling than the belief that people may, on occasion, be humorless and overly sensitive.

[HELPNEEDED]

Serious if thats racist then god damn me.

[North East Goon]

Racist or not, I'm walking on air, never thought I could feel so free'eee...

[undercoverbrother]

My question is, and it might be off topic, but at what time do we move forward. If we wish to move beyond a racist past, then there needs to be forgiveness. It would appear that the forgiveness is not there yet. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but Canada does not have an organized racist past, ie: legal slavery.

[Ark2]

I suppose that it is racially insensitve given that there are people who feel it is offensive and Bozak, who was clearly aware that this would cause some controversy, did it anyway. That being said, good for him. People don't have the right to not be offended, and if you come across something as trivial as this and it offends you, too bad. No one was hurt by this, no one's quality of life was reduced or rights infringed upon, so it is nothing more than a little inconvenience that those who did take offense will just have to endure.

For those that would like to see this sort of thing stopped, I feel that these are the real intolerant people. People view the world differently. As long as these views do not violate the rights of others, then that is perfectly fine.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

My question is, and it might be off topic, but at what time do we move forward. If we wish to move beyond a racist past, then there needs to be forgiveness. It would appear that the forgiveness is not there yet. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but Canada does not have an organized racist past, ie: legal slavery.

Yes Canada had slavery until 1834. more than half were aboriginals, but some were black.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Ark2

I suppose that it is racially insensitve given that there are people who feel it is offensive and Bozak, who was clearly aware that this would cause some controversy, did it anyway. That being said, good for him. People don't have the right to not be offended, and if you come across something as trivial as this and it offends you, too bad. No one was hurt by this, no one's quality of life was reduced or rights infringed upon, so it is nothing more than a little inconvenience that those who did take offense will just have to endure.

For those that would like to see this sort of thing stopped, I feel that these are the real intolerant people. People view the world differently. As long as these views do not violate the rights of others, then that is perfectly fine.

Well than you can just go around dropping the N word since it fits the above definition. Something tells me you won't though. You should though to take this honorable stand you speak of above. To not do it would be cowardly.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

Yes Canada had slavery until 1834. more than half were aboriginals, but some were black.

So over 150 yrs ago. I would suggest that Canada (let's forget Caroline for a minute) wouldn't be classified as a racist country.

At some point we (humanity) need to move on, or we will never truely hope to move forward we must forgive. Not forget, but forgive. Part of forgiveness is, IMO, a reduction of sensitivites. As I posted earlier, the dressing up as a famous person is different than dressing up as a generic blackman.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

So it's impossible to overreact to an offense? How could it be if the victim is the only one who can measure the offense? Personally, I find the suggestion that people are incapable of empathy unless they have lived through the same experience far more troubling than the belief that people may, on occasion, be humorless and overly sensitive.

I think you would have a point if it was a minority, but at least in the US a majority of blacks would find it offensive. We are talking millions of people not one or two.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So over 150 yrs ago. I would suggest that Canada (let's forget Caroline for a minute) wouldn't be classified as a racist country.

At some point we (humanity) need to move on, or we will never truely hope to move forward we must forgive. Not forget, but forgive. Part of forgiveness is, IMO, a reduction of sensitivites. As I posted earlier, the dressing up as a famous person is different than dressing up as a generic blackman.

http://www.themarknews.com/articles/.../#.UJKfNcUX_To

I would say there is probably a lot of racism that everyday white Canadians are not aware of.

[Savvy27]

The popularity of an argument doesn't determine its validity. What is the insult here? As far as I can tell, the offense is insensitivity. People are offended because he was insensitive to the likely reaction that they would be offended, not because he portrayed black people in some demeaning way or even Michael Jackson in any demeaning light. Blackface can certainly be used to lampoon, insult, and demean black people, but in this case it wasn't.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

http://www.themarknews.com/articles/.../#.UJKfNcUX_To

I would say there is probably a lot of racism that everyday white Canadians are not aware of.

For every Canadian article I would suggest you can find 20 US articles.

When I was on Ft Ord, there were bars on base we couldn't go in. Why because the base was self-segregated. The whites had a bar, the blacks had a bar, as did the hispanics.

Canada has it's problems, but no where near what the US has when we talk race relations.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

The popularity of an argument doesn't determine its validity. What is the insult here? As far as I can tell, the offense is insensitivity. People are offended because he was insensitive to the likely reaction that they would be offended, not because he portrayed black people in some demeaning way or even Michael Jackson in any demeaning light. Blackface can certainly be used to lampoon, insult, and demean black people, but in this case it wasn't.

When put in historical context, painting ones skin black was used to demean the African American. People still do it in a demeaning way more often than not. Bozak might not have meant any harm by it, but how are we supposed to know that he didn't do it in a demeaning way? The implications are that it's racist, doing it an innocent way is forgivable, however don't be surprised at being called racist due to the acts past. That is why it is best to avoid it all together.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

For every Canadian article I would suggest you can find 20 US articles.

When I was on Ft Ord, there were bars on base we couldn't go in. Why because the base was self-segregated. The whites had a bar, the blacks had a bar, as did the hispanics.

Canada has it's problems, but no where near what the US has when we talk race relations.

When did this become a comparison? Of course the US has more incidents of racism, we have a worst past and a much higher percentage black population. I wouldn't set the US as the bar to measure yourself against in terms of racism.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

When did this become a comparison? Of course the US has more incidents of racism, we have a worst past and a much higher percentage black population. I wouldn't set the US as the bar to measure yourself against in terms of racism.

You are right, the posts just seemed to slide that way (or maybe it was your 2 yr old article) and they shouldn't have.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by FlamingLonghorn

I think you would have a point if it was a minority, but at least in the US a majority of blacks would find it offensive. We are talking millions of people not one or two.

Who cares what people in the US think? Bozak is a Canadian who did this in Canada. Should we revamp our laws on alcohol because they offend millions in Saudi Arabia?