[Trade] Flames acquire Roman Horak and 2x 2011 2nd rd picks for Tim Erixon and 5th rd pick

[sworkhard]

Yah, I misread Wiki. He was 21 in his first full year though, same as Backlund. At least in part due to the lockout, otherwise he may have been 20 in his first full year.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Instead of bashing Erixon maybe the Flames organization should take a look in the mirror and determine what makes them a less attractive organization to play for relative to other teams. Blake Wheeler did something similar in Phoenix because at the time the Coyotes organization was one of the worst run in the NHL and it was more of a circus rather than a professional club with the hockey team being a sideshow almost to Gretzky coaching.

Right now the Flames need to invest in their young make it a hospitable place for players to develop - give more opportunities to make the team and grow as players - every player that has been brought up over the past few years seems to be shoved into a third line grinder type role to start and then they are benched when they don't excel at that type of game.

Maybe Erixon just wanted to play in New York, maybe he just didn't want to play in Calgary and while the trade that was made will do the best for the Flames given their options at the time - in the long run the real winners are going to be the Rangers who have a very solid young defensive core.

BS...the Flames have a reputation for developing defencemen. Phaneuf, Giordano, Regher, Montador, Commodore, Aulie, Wilson....most of those guys weren't even drafted.

And if you look at the lineup, outside of Giordano, who else was going to play the opposite point on the powerplay? Who has a booming slap shot and offensive instincts? Erixon had it made, it was the ideal situation for him in Calgary.

If you read everything that is out there, it's hard not to come to the conclusion that this whole thing was a rouse by the Erixon camp and the Rangers.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Fair enough - I think you also have to remember that there was the lockout in 2004-05 which prevented him from playing a full season in the NHL.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by 868904

BS...the Flames have a reputation for developing defencemen. Phaneuf, Giordano, Regher, Montador, Commodore, Aulie, Wilson....most of those guys weren't even drafted.

Out of your list three of the seven had to go to different organizations to get their break though. Commodore (Carolina), Montador (Florida) and Aulie (Toronto) and Wilson (Colorado) all were unable to make the jump to the NHL and become regular players until after they left Calgary. Calgary could have just had amazing depth on the blueline but I think at the same time there was always someone being brought in from outside the organization resulting in no room for anyone to make the jump. Hell in 2006 they bring in Marshment and Hulse for some sort of bizarre retirement tour.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Fair enough - I think you also have to remember that there was the lockout in 2004-05 which prevented him from playing a full season in the NHL.

No disagreement there. It's more that he's a perfect example of how starting on a lower line doesn't really hurt development like some people seem to think. It will reduce a players point totals for the season without a doubt, but IMO, it makes them better players in the long run.

I'd expect Ryan Howse for example to start in a simlar spot if the makes the NHL. It a place a player can prove they are not a liablity on the ice, play about 10 minutes a game against lower end opposition, which means they play enough to develop thier game, are less likely to have thier mistakes bite them, and if they can contribute at a resonable pace/60, they will eventually be given more responsibiilty and as a result, more opportunity to make a difference.

[ricardodw]

The other decision that the Flames made under Sutter was that their AHL farm team was going to be a pure development effort. It will be interesting if Feaster puts a few more journeyman pros in Abbotsford to give the heat a chance to be competitive as they develop.

As old as the Flames roster was with 3 guys under 27 the Heat has 5 guys over 26 - Myers, meyer, Keith, Piskula, Ryan Stone and one guy over 30 Quentin Laing , 2 if you count Kotalik.


This roster can not win consistently and the young guys can not put together impressive numbers.

On the Moose team that graduates a steady stream of players to the Canucks they had 22 players play for them that were 26 or older.

On the Moose play off roster they had 11 guy over 26. Jaffray, Rypien, Baumgartner,Garth Murray (not going to play in NHL again) provide a winning core so that the young guys get to contribute to a winning effort.

Hodgson wasn't moved from the top line on the Moose as he would have been behind Jaffray on the Moose to the the fourth line on the Canucks.

In the same way in 2009-10 Backlund played 2nd line centre behind Jaffray on a more successful Heat team.

Nemiscz as a first year pro was the go to forward on the 2010-11 Heat. his 33 pts in 68 games did not turn a lot of heads..... or build a lot of confidence.... But he had to adapt to a completely different role when called up by the Flames.

[sworkhard]

Feaster talked about possibly bringing in some AHL vets to compliment the players they had and try to build a winning environment. He said that a winning environment with room for players to grow is ultimately what they are trying to foster in Abbostford.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by 868904

BS...the Flames have a reputation for developing defencemen. Phaneuf, Giordano, Regher, Montador, Commodore, Aulie, Wilson....most of those guys weren't even drafted.

And if you look at the lineup, outside of Giordano, who else was going to play the opposite point on the powerplay? Who has a booming slap shot and offensive instincts? Erixon had it made, it was the ideal situation for him in Calgary.

If you read everything that is out there, it's hard not to come to the conclusion that this whole thing was a rouse by the Erixon camp and the Rangers.

For sure it was a rouse, a rouse that was played out slowly enough that Feaster had no choice but to deal with the Rangers, but that doesn't say Erixon's camp didn't have valid arguments or at the least, there was the perception that they were valid arguments.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Out of your list three of the seven had to go to different organizations to get their break though. Commodore (Carolina), Montador (Florida) and Aulie (Toronto) and Wilson (Colorado) all were unable to make the jump to the NHL and become regular players until after they left Calgary. Calgary could have just had amazing depth on the blueline but I think at the same time there was always someone being brought in from outside the organization resulting in no room for anyone to make the jump. Hell in 2006 they bring in Marshment and Hulse for some sort of bizarre retirement tour.

Right, so there was no ice time for them on the Flames so they traded them to a team they would get ice time with. That would be a good thing for the player, no? How does that make the organization look bad?

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

but that doesn't say Erixon's camp didn't have valid arguments or at the least, there was the perception that they were valid arguments.

How?

I thought the issues that Feaster spoke about on the Radio were very short sighted from the Agents perspective.

For example in 2011- 2012 season the cap is increasing.

Then in 2012-2013 there is boat load of contracts coming off the books...

Issues

(1) AHL versus Europe - Said he would place a term for all 3 years stating he would be sent to Europe instead of AHL

(2) Defense // Team was to cap heavy and Erixon would be a victim of cap crunch. Feaster said he actually sent them a list of players under contract and that this was not an issue. That space would be made.

I would ask the question to the Agent how is it any different for the Rangers. If they sign Brad Richards as per the rumours they are going to be cap heavy next season....

Would be funny if Erixon is sent to AHL due to cap room issues.

[ah123]

Originally Posted by flambers

Would be funny if Erixon is sent to AHL due to cap room issues.

Would be funnier if Erixon is traded to Dallas in exchange for the rights to negotiate for Richards

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

That players who are apparently ready to play in the NHL are buried in the minors as Marshment, Hulse, Zyuzin, Hale, Eriksson, Vandermeer and Aucoin are brought in? The fact is since the lockout the Flames have had three of their own crack the defense, Phaneuf, Giordano and Pardy, who was bumped down the depth chart this past year by Staois.

Hell the Flames almost lost Giordano when they refused to sign him to a one way contract or something like that!

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

That players who are apparently ready to play in the NHL are buried in the minors as Marshment, Hulse, Zyuzin, Hale, Eriksson, Vandermeer and Aucoin are brought in? The fact is since the lockout the Flames have had three of their own crack the defense, Phaneuf, Giordano and Pardy, who was bumped down the depth chart this past year by Staois.

Hell the Flames almost lost Giordano when they refused to sign him to a one way contract or something like that!

But we didn't lose Gio we let him go overseas and get huge minutes playing a major role and it helped him develop. We retained his rights and gave him the contract he wanted when he returned and has now developed into our best all around Dman who just signed a 5 year extension at a very reasonable cap hit. (I suspect he could have got 5-5.5 if he went UFA).

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

That players who are apparently ready to play in the NHL are buried in the minors as Marshment, Hulse, Zyuzin, Hale, Eriksson, Vandermeer and Aucoin are brought in? The fact is since the lockout the Flames have had three of their own crack the defense, Phaneuf, Giordano and Pardy, who was bumped down the depth chart this past year by Staois.

Hell the Flames almost lost Giordano when they refused to sign him to a one way contract or something like that!

Flames developed, Giordano, Regher, Pardy. (3 out of the 6 who played most of the games).

Flames developed, Wilson, Aulie, Phaneuf, Montador, Commodore etc.

Sure they brought in older dman.... would think the reason for that is the poor drafting history?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by flambers

Flames developed, Giordano...

Who chose the KHL over the Flames at a time when he was looking for a chance to break into the big time.

It's nice that we got him back, but Gio is a prime example of a frustrated young player choosing to go elsewhere. And he was right too.

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by fotze

Why Sutter traded a guy just about to break into the NHL, I'll never know. Signed him as an undrafted, play him in the minors for a year then traded him before you get any benefit.

That was one of the piss off trades that Sutter doesn't get enough grief over.

You could argue they developed Pardy too. I think Calgary is the premiere 5,6,7 defenceman and 3,4 line forward developing team in the league though.

We can make really bland average chicken soup out of chicken sh*t.

I was pro-Sutter on the Gio thing, but I think we got lucky on that one more than anything else.

I was actually quite unhappy when he got rid of Wilson, along with putting Aulie in with the Phaneuf Trade.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

That players who are apparently ready to play in the NHL are buried in the minors as Marshment, Hulse, Zyuzin, Hale, Eriksson, Vandermeer and Aucoin are brought in? The fact is since the lockout the Flames have had three of their own crack the defense, Phaneuf, Giordano and Pardy, who was bumped down the depth chart this past year by Staois.

Hell the Flames almost lost Giordano when they refused to sign him to a one way contract or something like that!

I totally agree with your comments but I also think that we've made enough changes in our staffing that this should slowly change. The worst thing about our team is how much we have invested in old, immobile overpriced d men to play in our 4-7 spots. Then we are forced to bring in guys like mikkelson/carson who make next to nothing but have huge flaws in their game.

Moving forward we need to stop farming out roster spots to players like staios, hulse, kostopolous, jackman etc and allow players like brodie, erixon, bouma and armstrong come in and play. This frees up a ton of money to spend on our better players and also allows for young players to grow into roles and see they actually have somewhere to work to when in the AHL.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Out of your list three of the seven had to go to different organizations to get their break though. Commodore (Carolina), Montador (Florida) and Aulie (Toronto) and Wilson (Colorado) all were unable to make the jump to the NHL and become regular players until after they left Calgary. Calgary could have just had amazing depth on the blueline but I think at the same time there was always someone being brought in from outside the organization resulting in no room for anyone to make the jump. Hell in 2006 they bring in Marshment and Hulse for some sort of bizarre retirement tour.

Different times, Flames were loading up for a cup run and needed bodies on the back end. YOu being a Canuck fan should know the importance of that. How many did you go through this year?

The Flames are no where near a cup run right now. They desperately needed good young players to step in and play. Erixon was the perfect solution.

Erixon is not Pelech or Negrin or Breen. He was the best prospect the Flames have developed since Phaneuf. He was going to play this year, Feaster stated that very clearly. This was the perfect situation for him.

The salary cap issues are just excuses. By the time Erixon is due for a raise, both Sarich and Regher will be off the books. Iggy will likely have a lower contract and Langkow will be gone too.

Conversely, you look at all the young players the Rangers have, they are going to be an RFA target in a few years with all those good young players looking for a raise.

Again, just excuses by the Erixon camp. He should just come out and say the truth, he wanted to play for the Rangers, that's all there is to it. Man up and speak the truth instead of making up these stupid excuses.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

Moving forward we need to stop farming out roster spots to players like staios, hulse, kostopolous, jackman etc and allow players like brodie, erixon, bouma and armstrong come in and play. This frees up a ton of money to spend on our better players and also allows for young players to grow into roles and see they actually have somewhere to work to when in the AHL.

I would agree, best case is to bring up AHLers to fill roster spots.

However the big problem is most of them were not NHL ready (start of last season) (i.e. Brodie, Bouma, Armstrong, Erixon was in Europe, Nemisz, Pelech etc).

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Itse

Who chose the KHL over the Flames at a time when he was looking for a chance to break into the big time.

It's nice that we got him back, but Gio is a prime example of a frustrated young player choosing to go elsewhere. And he was right too.

But he still must of liked Calgary, he came back and signed a very reasonable contract. Not at all what a player would have done if he thought he wouldn't get a chance.