[Trade] Flames acquire Roman Horak and 2x 2011 2nd rd picks for Tim Erixon and 5th rd pick

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The NHL (if it was major league) would hold a tampering inquiry and find out when Erixon negotiated with the Rangers...... (likely the Flames gave prior permission to see if they could match or better the offer)

The Flames reached a deal with the Rangers on Monday, at which time the Flames allowed the Rangers to begin negotiations with Erixon. This was confirmed on twitter I think by a writer for the Herald.

There's conflicting reports, but this isn't some chop-shop league. It is a professional league. If there was any wrong-doing, The Flames would take proper measures.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I am just saying that if the Flames did not have a hint that this was coming then they are not to the management level that is required to get a winning hockey team.


However I do not believe that they were caught with their pants as far down as it seems.

He didn't go to the Rangers in the last 30 minutes and say he wanted the same contract as Hall or Doughty
If the Flames did not give Erixon permission to negotiate, the trade should stand and Erixon's contract with the Rangers voided and Erixon put back into the draft.

Erixon is not totally to blame and there is a chance that he did not go out of his way to screw the Flames.

We never will know who knew what when.

I believe Feaster said he started to negotiate the trade with Sather the day previous to the dead-line

As for Erixon's agent's stance... Feaster said the agent did not express their concerns when the 1st offer was made. Only concern expressed was lack of interest of AHL... Feaster and Conroy later discovered there was serious problems. All of them seem to be short sited.

As for Erixon & his agent he should get 100% of the blame for this situation. He basically tried to hand pick which team he played for. For a guy drafted very low in the first round that's unheard of.

He better produce at the NHL level as he has a target on him..... Media and the fans will talk about the guy. I bet the Flames will trash talk the player....

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by flambers

I believe Feaster said he started to negotiate the trade with Sather the day previous to the dead-line

As for Erixon's agent's stance... Feaster said the agent did not express their concerns when the 1st offer was made. Only concern expressed was lack of interest of AHL... Feaster and Conroy later discovered there was serious problems. All of them seem to be short sited.

As for Erixon & his agent he should get 100% of the blame for this situation. He basically tried to hand pick which team he played for. For a guy drafted very low in the first round that's unheard of.

He better produce at the NHL level as he has a target on him..... Media and the fans will talk about the guy. I bet the Flames will trash talk the player....

So exactly what rule did Erixon break?

Turning down an offer and saying I don't want to sign with you now.... maybe later (if there is no other choice)?


How much blow back was there for Blake Wheeler (5th pick overall - compensation 35th pick who is now thrilled to be playing in Winnipeg),Umberger Vancouver 16th pick overall) Jarret Stoll and Lombardi who actual screwed the team drafting them even worse.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Why would Rundblad only have 2 years left on his ELC?


No one has answered why Rundblad got so much better treatment than Erixon.

Same draft, played for exactly the same teams and Rundblad is a year closer to his RFA, UFA and big contract.


So you Erixon haters the Flames screwed him out of $4M on his RFA contract.... Rundblad will be getting his payout and Erixon will be finishing his ELC.

The Flames screwed him out of nothing and Rundblad was not given this magic, "so much better" treatment you speak of.

Rundblad got his contract because the Blues wanted to sign him last offseason before they used him in a trade. Lots of first rounders weren't signed last offseason and were signed during the year.

Erixon was actually offered a richer contract that what Rundblad got by the Flames this off-season with all the bonus clauses included, so maybe he shouldn't have felt so neglected if the Flames were willing to pay him more.

Plus Erixon was also offered a contract last off-season but he refused because he wanted to remain in Sweden and did not want to come over to the AHL. That was his choice and because of that he did not want to sign the contract.

If he was so concerned about being an RFA earlier, and being one year closer to a big pay day he should have signed and not pouted about playing in the AHL.

As a 20 year old who was a first round draft pick you shouldn't be able to pout and force every one of your demands on the team, and then try and say it was the teams fault because they didn't treat you good enough. If you are a whiny, primadonna you are never going to feel like you got treated well enough.

You should man up, be happy to get drafted in the first round, and do what the team thinks is the best for you and the team moving forward.

If Erixon had signed last year I guarantee he would have got called up late last season and would probably be a lock to make the team this year.

Additionally you are assuming that both will be getting big pay days on their RFA contract, which is a huge assumption.

I could argue that him becoming RFA early actually hampers his earning ability on his RFA contract.

For example due to Rundblad becoming RFA at a younger age he may not as ready, struggle his first two seasons to adapt to the NHL game due to being too young, and then resign for a couple years on a RFA deal that is for a lower value since he did not impress in the NHL.

Since Erixon becomes RFA a year later he was more mature and his game was more developed, polished and NHL ready. He then proved more in the NHL and had a break out year in his 3rd season due to being developed and got a bigger contract due to him being a year older and more polished.

So really the Flames were doing him a favor because him being a year older, and more polished allowed him to be more successful before his RFA contract.

See assumptions are fun and can be made up to prove whatever the hell you want to prove.

This had nothing to do with what the Flames did, and it had nothing to do with David Rundblad and his contract (his contract/name was not mentioned by Feaster when going through reasons Erixon didn't sign).

This happened because Erixon, his agent, and his family were playing games with the Flames, wanted the kid to play in New York, and held out in order to make it happen. They knew that they had all the power in negotiations and even declined a max rookie contract, which is usually never given to 23rd overall picks, in order to get it done.

[troutman]

Erixon's "concerns" all sound like BS to me. He wanted to play for NYR.

The next CBA has to take away this leverage from prospects.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So exactly what rule did Erixon break?

Turning down an offer and saying I don't want to sign with you now.... maybe later (if there is no other choice)?


How much blow back was there for Blake Wheeler (5th pick overall - compensation 35th pick who is now thrilled to be playing in Winnipeg),Umberger Vancouver 16th pick overall) Jarret Stoll and Lombardi who actual screwed the team drafting them even worse.

I think you just proved that sometimes a player simply doesn't want to play for the team they are drafted by. He didn't break any rules, but if he makes the Rangers team out of camp, he can be expected to be hear a chorus of boos the first time he comes to Calgary. If he makes it in a couple of years instead, most people will have forgotten.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Instead of bashing Erixon maybe the Flames organization should take a look in the mirror and determine what makes them a less attractive organization to play for relative to other teams. Blake Wheeler did something similar in Phoenix because at the time the Coyotes organization was one of the worst run in the NHL and it was more of a circus rather than a professional club with the hockey team being a sideshow almost to Gretzky coaching.

Right now the Flames need to invest in their young make it a hospitable place for players to develop - give more opportunities to make the team and grow as players - every player that has been brought up over the past few years seems to be shoved into a third line grinder type role to start and then they are benched when they don't excel at that type of game.

Maybe Erixon just wanted to play in New York, maybe he just didn't want to play in Calgary and while the trade that was made will do the best for the Flames given their options at the time - in the long run the real winners are going to be the Rangers who have a very solid young defensive core.

I strongly believe that Calgary needs to revamp their scouting and the way that they treat their young - they don't have the worst draft record by any stretch but in the past decade the only player to have a major impact was Phaneuf. Past that the moves that Sutter made in which he traded away his young players (Kobasew, Lombardi) or gave a player a single shift in the league (Ramholt).... Granted Ramholt gave the puck away or something but I wouldn't be surprised if young players take note of something like that and say - if it could happen there, it could happen to me as well.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

And the other was mad because the Flames accurately assessed that he was only an ECHL calibre player.

Well it's pretty obvious with Feaster's statement that the Flames do have a problem, even if it's only a matter of perception. I found it glaring when Darryl signed that plug to a one way contract, so that Giordano had no chance to make the team, so he moved on to Russia. It's been a topic that has been discussed here for years, so if you want to bury your head in the sand, be my guest.

Erixon also did not like that in recent years, the Flames have opted to go with an older lineup. He thought his rookie status would work against him despite Feaster telling him that under the new administration, youth would have the opportunity to play with the team while noting there were reasons some prospects have yet to make the jump.

"From our perspective, it's because some of the young players simply weren't ready. Some of the young players that were brought in, such as a Dion Phaneuf for example, have been traded so they're not here right now but the concern was that when push comes to shove, we're a team that is more comfortable going with veterans."

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by troutman

Erixon's "concerns" all sound like BS to me. He wanted to play for NYR.

The next CBA has to take away this leverage from prospects.

Why? If they have to sign with the team that drafts them, they will simply request a trade if they still don't like it. Do you really want a player on your team that doesn't want to be there? I don't. Maybe make it so you keep a prospects rights for a couple more years (at least European Prospects) and you can reduce the probablity of this happening as it gives more time to sign them, and an improved likelyhood they will change thier mind about a team for the better.

[PlayfulGenius]

I'll be a very happy man if either Horak or one of the picks turns into a better NHL player than Erixon... he quickly went from my most anticipated prospect to most hated player

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Instead of bashing Erixon maybe the Flames organization should take a look in the mirror and determine what makes them a less attractive organization to play for relative to other teams. Blake Wheeler did something similar in Phoenix because at the time the Coyotes organization was one of the worst run in the NHL and it was more of a circus rather than a professional club with the hockey team being a sideshow almost to Gretzky coaching.

Right now the Flames need to invest in their young make it a hospitable place for players to develop - give more opportunities to make the team and grow as players - every player that has been brought up over the past few years seems to be shoved into a third line grinder type role to start and then they are benched when they don't excel at that type of game.

Maybe Erixon just wanted to play in New York, maybe he just didn't want to play in Calgary and while the trade that was made will do the best for the Flames given their options at the time - in the long run the real winners are going to be the Rangers who have a very solid young defensive core.

I'd say it's partly true, however, I truly believe that this had more to do with his desire to play in New York than believing Calgary sucks.

The kid is boasting all over Swedish newspapers and calling it a dream come true. I'll still place most of the blame on him and hope he never plays a game in the NHL.

I'm hoping we've gained some karma out of this incident, even though it doesn't seem to exist in the NHL.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Instead of bashing Erixon maybe the Flames organization should take a look in the mirror and determine what makes them a less attractive organization to play for relative to other teams. Blake Wheeler did something similar in Phoenix because at the time the Coyotes organization was one of the worst run in the NHL and it was more of a circus rather than a professional club with the hockey team being a sideshow almost to Gretzky coaching.

Right now the Flames need to invest in their young make it a hospitable place for players to develop - give more opportunities to make the team and grow as players - every player that has been brought up over the past few years seems to be shoved into a third line grinder type role to start and then they are benched when they don't excel at that type of game.

Maybe Erixon just wanted to play in New York, maybe he just didn't want to play in Calgary and while the trade that was made will do the best for the Flames given their options at the time - in the long run the real winners are going to be the Rangers who have a very solid young defensive core.

Since when is the third line for grinders? That's what the 4th line is for, and even those aren't just for girnders anymore. Just about every successful team has a scoring third line. Yes, they have to be defensively responsible, but unless your drafted by a lottery team, that's they way it is in the NHL. Seguin plays mostly on the 4th line in Boston, for example, but if he's having an exceptionally strong game, he gets some glipses of higher lines and power play time. There are countless more examples of player being treated this way in the NHL. As they develop and assert themselves more, they become top 6 players if they can produce well enough. Someone demonstrated that players who consistently produce above (2.6pt/60) consistenly become top 6 players, and though who can't maintain that, fall out of the top 6 or don't make it at all.

Finally, last I checked, Backlund's development is right on track compared to the players that were drafted in his ball park in 07 and already in the NHL. Development takes time, but as long as they can hold their own they will stick. Ryan Kesler's wan't put into a top 6 role to start his NHL career either, but by continuous improvement, he's now considered a number 1 centre. Backlund first full year NHL numbers are higher than Kesler's were in his first full year for example.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

Why? If they have to sign with the team that drafts them, they will simply request a trade if they still don't like it. Do you really want a player on your team that doesn't want to be there? I don't. Maybe make it so you keep a prospects rights for a couple more years (at least European Prospects) and you can reduce the probablity of this happening as it gives more time to sign them, and an improved likelyhood they will change thier mind about a team for the better.

Why? So the prospect can't put a gun to the head of the team at the last minute when they can't make a better trade.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So exactly what rule did Erixon break?

Turning down an offer and saying I don't want to sign with you now.... maybe later (if there is no other choice)?


How much blow back was there for Blake Wheeler (5th pick overall - compensation 35th pick who is now thrilled to be playing in Winnipeg),Umberger Vancouver 16th pick overall) Jarret Stoll and Lombardi who actual screwed the team drafting them even worse.

Obviously he broke no rule.....

He acted like Mr Eric Lindros.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by troutman

Why? So the prospect can't put a gun to the head of the team at the last minute when they can't make a better trade.

And how do you know that you'll get a better return in a trade for a player that's already signed?

There's no minimum bar set in that case, as he can't go back to the draft, so a compensetory pick isn't an option. Everyone knows he won't play for the team, so they are going to lowball, and as a result, could very well end up with a lower return. When a player can be put back into the draft, is a negotiating tool for the trading team just as much as it is for the player.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

Finally, last I checked, Backlund's development is right on track compared to the players that were drafted in his ball park in 07 and already in the NHL. Development takes time, but as long as they can hold their own they will stick. Ryan Kesler's wan't put into a top 6 role to start his NHL career either, but by continuous improvement, he's now considered a number 1 centre. Backlund first full year NHL numbers are higher than Kesler's were in his first full year for example.

Kesler was 18, Backlund was 21.

I think Backlund is going to be a heck of a good player - I don't think that a comparison to Kesler is fair for either player as they are completely different players. I don't want to turn this into a pissing match like every other thread where the Canucks are mentioned though. But Kesler was given more opportunities at a younger age than Backlund and I would say that has helped his development.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Kesler was 18, Backlund was 21.

I think Backlund is going to be a heck of a good player - I don't think that a comparison to Kesler is fair for either player as they are completely different players. I don't want to turn this into a pissing match like every other thread where the Canucks are mentioned though. But Kesler was given more opportunities at a younger age than Backlund and I would say that has helped his development.

No Kesler wasn't. He went to college for a couple years first. He was 20 at least. They were drafted to be different kinds of players, but I'm just saying that starting them in a 3rd line role isn't a bad place.

Edit: His first full year he was 21 (at least for most of it), same as Backlund.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Instead of bashing Erixon maybe the Flames organization should take a look in the mirror and determine what makes them a less attractive organization to play for relative to other teams. Blake Wheeler did something similar in Phoenix because at the time the Coyotes organization was one of the worst run in the NHL and it was more of a circus rather than a professional club with the hockey team being a sideshow almost to Gretzky coaching.

Right now the Flames need to invest in their young make it a hospitable place for players to develop - give more opportunities to make the team and grow as players - every player that has been brought up over the past few years seems to be shoved into a third line grinder type role to start and then they are benched when they don't excel at that type of game.

Maybe Erixon just wanted to play in New York, maybe he just didn't want to play in Calgary and while the trade that was made will do the best for the Flames given their options at the time - in the long run the real winners are going to be the Rangers who have a very solid young defensive core.

I strongly believe that Calgary needs to revamp their scouting and the way that they treat their young - they don't have the worst draft record by any stretch but in the past decade the only player to have a major impact was Phaneuf. Past that the moves that Sutter made in which he traded away his young players (Kobasew, Lombardi) or gave a player a single shift in the league (Ramholt).... Granted Ramholt gave the puck away or something but I wouldn't be surprised if young players take note of something like that and say - if it could happen there, it could happen to me as well.

Who in the Flames organization has bashed Erixon?
If "maybe he just wanted to play in New York" why do you ascribe that to some further problem the Flames must have?
Glenncross would disagree with your assertion that the Flames are "a less attractive organization to play for relative to other teams. ", seemingly so would Horak who is by all accounts pumped to be coming! Oh and that's right he's a young player. Gosh.
No doubt there's room for drafting improvement, but people have to realize the administration has changed and also that not every decision the previous one made was based in err. JD Watt as an example, or automatically giving ice time rather than it being deserved.
Finally, people can say there's denial and putting head in the sand, I think there's just as much denial that not everything is bleak from the other camp.

[Stats87]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

No Kesler wasn't. He went to college for 4 years first. He was 23. They were drafted to be different kinds of players, but I'm just saying that starting them in a 3rd line role isn't a bad place.

Kesler only did 1 year in the NCAA and turned pro after being drafted.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by sworkhard

No Kesler wasn't. He went to college for a couple years first. He was 20 at least. They were drafted to be different kinds of players, but I'm just saying that starting them in a 3rd line role isn't a bad place.

He was drafted in 2003 and played in 2003-04 splitting time with the Moose and the Canucks